Hey, hey, how are you guys doing?
Good. Great to be with you all.
Just check. Yes.
Very good. Sounds as it should be.
And we will just check a little bit with you guys right now as people get ready to jump in the Zoom room.
But some fun news is that the book and this is the this is the this is the workbook for singles on here.
That's not very seen it very well.
Just the reflection on the screen.
They go not so great, but they go.
That's the. Oh, that's the seven second pathway,
since we see in a workbook for singles and then there's a workbook for couples, which is done as well.
We're going to be releasing them in just a few days.
So we've got it all. We're just making a couple of tiny little little edits on the main book.
And then we're going to release it to you guys.
But it's all pretty much done just a couple of tiny little things.
And so we're pretty excited about that in sharing this journey together.
So, oh, I can't see this very well.
Just the reflections of things that this is a lot of fun, these workbooks.
So you're going to get a lot of good value out of that.
So we'll be sending everyone the workbooks next week.
So that is awesome.
Sorry, dancing around each other here.
That's right. We like dancing.
And we are also, what are we doing?
We really were hanging out for a second here to check and check that this is streaming.
I was doing it. Hey, for you beautiful people in Adorkis.
Great to see you. Facebook world people give us a little shout out.
Great to be with you.
If you can, come jump in here in the Zoom room with us so we can have a little bit of fun.
And yeah, we've got a fun session lined up for you today.
We're quite keen as well to have a little bit of Q&A with you guys too.
So Facebook people, if you feel chatty.
Oh, yeah.
Niamh from Ireland jumping in here. That's so cool.
Yeah, we're stoked to be jumping into this session.
And we will be doing a little bit of a recap on the Singsacred Pathways.
So you're kind of getting familiar with them.
Hey, Niamh.
Hey. Hi, Hey, Jim.
Doing great. Thanks. Doing really, really good.
Great to be with you.
And you two guys, looking forward to what you have to share this evening.
Sorry, my evening, your morning.
Isn't that kind of funny, but awesome at the same time that here we are all over the world enjoying each other's company.
It's so cool. Yeah, it is so cool.
A new era, to be honest.
Yes. So, yeah, in this session, we're going to recap the Singsacred Pathways.
We're going to open it up for some Q&A.
And we're going to also chat in on what some of the things that really worked for us.
Going a little bit deeper into the nitty gritties of actually what worked for us to create change.
So be cool to hear from everyone.
I see a beautiful people on Facebook world as well.
Like I said, the link to jump in the Zoom room is in the description of the video.
So why don't you hit that and jump in here and join us.
And I want to just start with a prayer.
Neve, can we give you the honors again?
You were amazing last week.
We may as well keep you on the roll.
It's the Irish accent.
It's that. Yeah, yeah.
Every tribe a tongue.
Hey, hallelujah.
Father God, we bless you and we praise you.
And as Benji has said, thank you that from all over the globe, we can come together to
sit at your feet and to sit at one another's feet and to learn of one another, to listen
to Benji and Alana's story and hear the secrets that they have found as they've walked with
you in this path and on this journey.
And Lord, in all of this, we open ourselves up to your spirit.
Amen.
for your spirit to touch those parts in our hearts
that need to be touched and to hear those things
that your spirit highlights to each one of us,
whether we're listening now or on the replay
or in years to come, whenever,
that you would just cause us to hear
what we need to hear each one individually
and have your spirit touch those tender places
in our hearts where you might need to soften,
to heal, to restore, to build in some new things
or whatever you might need to do.
And so we give you this time
and we bless you in Jesus' name
and we bless this couple and pray
that you give them clarity and grace
and just support them as they share
and we bless them in Jesus' name too.
Amen.
Fantastic.
Cool, cool.
We've got Linda jumping in here.
So, babe, why don't you just give a quick recap
on what the seven sacred pathways are of the group?
Well, I'll get them off my list here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Get them in the right order.
So we've got the spiritual pathway,
the emotional pathway, the intellectual pathway,
the sensual pathway, the financial pathway,
the leadership pathway, and the sexual pathway.
Cool.
We've been getting reviews back on the book as well
from people coming in from all over the world,
getting some choice reviews back.
So really, really good hearing
how those are impacting people.
Linda, great to have you with us.
I'm not sure if she's gonna unmute,
but Linda, it's a treat to have you with us.
So thanks for jumping in here.
Thanks for joining in.
So that's the seven pathways, right?
Let's, we'll hit them again.
Number one is the spiritual.
So if you're on Facebook World or wherever you are,
say the spiritual pathway.
So our first three are the foundational pathways.
So babe, hit those again.
Spiritual, emotional, intellectual.
Yeah, so those are the foundational pathways.
And those are the pathways
that we don't really always realize
that's where our problems are rooted,
but they're always rooted there in some way or another.
But where they start really showing up
and the things that,
I guess you could say that all of our triggers
are all established somewhere along those lines.
Usually, to be honest,
it's usually all of our triggers,
all of our issues are actually usually established
in the spiritual pathway.
And that's something that is really not realized
or seen or understood by most people.
That's, you know, you hear people say like,
oh, I'm just an angry person,
or I was just born like that.
Well, it's actually not true.
It's, there's actually triggers in people
that are in the spiritual foundation
who don't really realize.
So those are our founding three,
the spiritual, emotional, and intellectual.
And then we've got the forgotten pathway.
The central pathway.
And why is that the forgotten pathway, babe?
Because most people think touch equals sex.
Yes!
Well, at least in our case.
Yeah, all touch should have a happy ending, right?
They're not alone in that.
That's what I used to think,
and that got me into a fair bit of strife.
But eventually we got there, figured it out, slowly,
but only with help.
You know, like, we didn't actually figure that out
by ourselves.
It was only people speaking into our lives
to help us realize these things.
So then we've got the three make or break pathways.
Let's highlight those again.
The financial, the leadership, and the sexual.
Yeah.
So that's the space where it's gonna make or break for us.
And yeah, it was nearly a break.
It was nearly a break.
Cool.
Got Tina jumping in here in the Zoom room.
So now for our Facebook people,
and for those in the Zoom room,
I would love just to open it up,
just open mic for a bit,
and just see any thoughts, any questions.
We just want to kind of create this open mic Q&A,
discussion space for a little bit before we charge on.
This is our third session.
So you've had a couple of sessions.
You've heard some of our story.
If there's any questions,
if there's any discussion points or anything like that,
this is a moment for that.
It's open mic.
Tina, welcome.
Good to have you with us.
Thank you.
Oh, you're still on mute.
Your video has come on, Tina, but you're on mute, but.
Sorry.
Good morning.
I'm turning my video off because I'm doing stuff.
but I'm listening. Two heads, two ears, one mouth. Yeah, very cool. Tina, before you turn your video
off, we've just opened it up for discussion, for Q&A for this session. Just wondering,
is there anything on your end that you had as a question or anything like that that you were
interested in chucking out there and starting some conversation on? On the spot. Yeah, on the spot,
thank you. I'm always interested to know how to, like we've been married quite a long time,
and I'm always interested to know how to get the romance back that can be lost over some years.
So that would be something I'd be quite interested in hearing. Cool, so first of all,
what does that look like for you? What does romance look like? Because I think we have to
really have a good picture of what we want that to look like. So for you, what would romance
look like? What's the dream? Very similar to what you had in your video, actually. I thought
that was quite cool, just having a dinner in some obscure place with all that beauty and stuff.
But my husband is quite addicted to his working, and that's important to him, so
it's navigating through that. Yeah, I'm a girl, I love stuff, I love going places.
I just like being, you know, impromptu. He knows that, but it's... Yeah, and I think, well, I appreciate
you sharing, because this is where things get quite personal, right? So it's quite personal,
and I think it's nice to be able to do this here in the Online School of Sonship, where
it's not free, because people have to pay to be here, you know, they have to really want to be
here. We're safe people here in a safe place. So what I would...
So what I'd like to just get a little bit deeper on for you is, can you just paint a picture
of what romance would look like for you? Like, what's the dream for you in terms of romance?
So the dream would really be... So your ideal date, your ideal, like, let's... I don't want
to pick on you, but I just want to, like, journey with you. So let's go deeper on this. Let's create
a picture of your ideal day or your ideal date. How about your ideal date? Why don't you describe
that for us? My ideal date? Day or date? Well, let's go with day. Your ideal, most romantic day
you can imagine. Okay, all right. Right, so there's no limits. You don't have to... It doesn't
have to be connected to reality, possibility, or even probability. It's just based on desire.
What would your ultimate day look like? Oh, you'll be so sorry. When I asked a lot of this,
it started with being picked up in a jet. And the other question was, who's going to be with me?
I love it. Okay, so picture this. You won't be happy you asked.
I will be picked up in a jet as well, and I'll be flown to a tropical island.
And the island will just be mine and his. That's it. Just mine and his. And we, yeah, and I will
have a boat waiting to take me scuba diving. And it will be in the time where he dives as well.
This is my dream. And we will spend our day on that boat out by a lagoon, hopefully when the
manta rays are mating. And I'll be down 60 feet, and they'll just zoom over the top of us. And we
will watch this amazing, yes, this amazing dance that they do. And then I'll be going out later on
to dive with the whales. And he can stay on the boat if he likes, but he'll be sharing the journey
with the whales. And then I'll be whipped away for a wonderful silver service. I will be able to
choose my dinner. My dinner, my menu will come in a gilt. It will be written in gold, and it will be,
it will have several choices for several, for several, oh, this is exciting.
It will have several menus, so I can choose from entree. And this dinner will last a good
four or five hours, at least, because we'll be dancing. We'll be dancing in and amongst it.
Then we will sit down with the tribe that's left in the kitchen. We will drink whiskey,
and we will sing. And I'll probably
not go to bed until the very early hours of the next day.
Very cool.
And when you do go to bed, what's gonna happen?
You're just gonna go to sleep
or are you guys gonna have some nice sex
or some arguments or what's gonna happen when you go to bed?
Is that part of your most romantic day
or not part of the experience?
I might've overdone it,
so we might have to back up a bit
and just have sex somewhere else as we go.
You might be, well, this is your ideal day.
It is.
I didn't think about all that.
So you're not gonna run out of money or energy,
so it's your ideal day.
So in your ideal day,
how many times do you have sex on this most romantic day?
Oh my goodness.
So yeah, if I leave it till tomorrow,
it might be he'll be speaking Russian
and I won't understand him
and he'll probably just snore and fall asleep.
So yes, we will have multiple opportunities
to be quite intimate throughout the day.
Fantastic, I call this good.
Good to see your picture of the day.
There you are, you're watching the manta rays dancing
and you've done a little bit of dancing yourself underwater.
Very good.
So cool, that's a cool picture.
So I think that's where we have to start,
is we just start by knowing what we want.
Yeah.
And creating that picture
if we want a marriage,
and this is for singles as well, right?
Like wherever you are in the relationship journey,
you still have to know what you want
because you've got to design it.
If you really, if you want the best marriage,
it comes through intentionality,
comes through being an architect of that relationship.
And if you haven't taken the time to go through
and describe what you want or identify what you want,
then it's really hard.
But I love that, round of applause for you, Tina.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that's where the workbook's really helpful too
because we ask lots of questions
which help you sort of gather information on yourself
about what you want and sort of the core reasons why.
And then the point of that is that you compare notes.
So hopefully your husband is hearing what you're saying
and understanding and vice versa.
And so you'll be able to give him good information
and he'll be able to give you good information.
And therefore you might get your most romantic date
or a version of it because he's understood
why that's important to you and yeah.
Looking forward to your workbook.
Yeah, the workbooks are so fun.
We actually, we had so much fun creating the workbooks.
We were just losing it.
We were just like,
part of it was because we stayed up until nearly midnight.
And so we started getting a little bit inappropriate
with the questions.
So we deleted a lot of what we'd written.
Yeah, it was pretty funny.
But even the stuff that didn't get deleted
is still pretty like, whoa, you said that?
Whoa, oh my gosh, okay, Christ.
So they're pretty fun, the workbooks.
So you'll love those when you get them next week.
But I think that, you know,
like when it comes to the divine design
or what we really want from marriage is a marriage,
like, you know, and Kareem, if you think I'm wrong,
but I think that what we really want is a marriage
where both people get exactly what they want,
when they want it, how they like it
without manipulation or control.
Yes.
So it's impossible for that to happen
without knowing, without good information.
And this is one of the biggest keys, I think,
in the whole process is the ability to give
and receive really good information to each other.
And that right there is such a big part of it
is having a blueprint for where you want
this relationship to go.
How do you know what winning looks like in a relationship?
How do you know when you've actually got to that point
where you're actually living the marriage of your dreams
if you haven't actually dreamed into it?
Oh, we've got some cool...
Okay.
Okay, we're just getting a cool question in here
from Facebook world, from Dorcas.
And hi, Dana.
Hi, Matateo and beautiful people on Facebook.
Great to be tracking with you.
Tina, thanks for sharing us your dream.
I love that.
So we're gonna ask Dorcas' question now
and then we'll answer, do our best to answer it.
I often have strong feelings about things.
Anyone out there have strong feelings about things?
We have strong feelings about things, definitely.
Both of us have strong feelings about things.
So if you have strong feelings about things,
say yes or nod your head or drop some type of comment.
So Dorcas says I have strong feelings about things
and often if we pay attention to what I'm feeling,
things will be better.
Hang on, I'm just making sure I'm reading this correct.
So I often have strong feelings about things
and often if we would pay attention to what I'm feeling,
things would go better.
How can I relate to my hubby
in a way that is honoring to him?
He tends to feel I'm always right and he's wrong.
How can I relate what I'm feeling
without making him feel intimidated?
No, that's great.
That's a really good question.
Especially, I think there's three questions in there.
So I think that probably the first one is the key here,
which is, I'm sorry, the last one's the key.
He tends to feel I'm always right and he's wrong.
How can I relate what I'm feeling
without making him feel intimidated?
That is the goal right there.
And we actually spend a lot of time in the book
on this topic too,
because it's all about safe atmospheres.
Do you wanna jump on that, babe?
About safe atmospheres?
Yeah, safe atmospheres and communicating in a way that...
So in our marriage,
we had huge moments where there wasn't safe atmospheres.
And it got to the point that our bedroom wasn't safe for me.
I didn't like going into our bedroom.
I didn't.
I dreaded going to bed at night and going to sleep.
And so I would delay things as long as possible,
because I knew when we would have that conversation again,
if we didn't have that conversation,
he was gonna be huffing and sighing to himself
on the other side of the bed,
wishing we'd had that conversation,
or just wishing that I'd given him whatever he asked for.
Yes, give me what I want.
Let me control you.
Yeah.
And so, yeah,
there just really wasn't a safe atmosphere at all.
I punished her with my sulking.
Yeah.
I punished her with my unsafe atmosphere.
And we were talking about this a bit earlier,
that actually Benji wanted to control me.
And that's what created the unsafe atmosphere,
was his trying to control.
So there was real power and a balance there.
It was a power struggle,
and I was using my unsafe emotions to punish her.
I wasn't thinking about this.
This is only what you get from analyzing it afterwards
and realizing, wow, that's actually what was happening.
I was trying to manipulate and control her
with unsafe emotions that created unsafe atmospheres
and the whole point,
which I didn't realize then
was a power struggle going on between us.
I was trying to control her to get what I wanted,
which was sex.
And-
And I was trying to not be controlled.
Yeah.
So we had this power struggle happening.
And at the time,
I felt like I was giving him really good information
of this is how I feel,
this is what's happening for me,
and that kind of thing.
And actually, I feel like,
actually our final conversation,
I said exactly the same thing.
He just processed it differently.
Yeah.
So that doesn't specifically answer your question,
but what it does highlight is the importance of,
if you've got to communicate,
it has to be in a safe atmosphere.
That's one of the very first things that you've got to do
if you ever want good communication to take place
is create that safe atmosphere.
And we use the example of a snail.
You know, like a snail, when it's feeling safe,
it's, you know, like its antennae are out,
it's weighing out its shell, it's feeling great.
But the moment the atmosphere starts getting unsafe,
its antennae come in.
And then after that,
it retracts all the way back into its shell.
So-
And for me, the atmosphere only became safe
when Benji verbalized and followed through
on what he said he was going to do
in terms of removing pressure off me
and giving me back my power in that situation
and giving me permission to say no and for that to be okay.
And-
Without punishment.
And it took a really long time actually for me to trust
that his lack of punishment was genuine.
Yeah. And to rebuild that trust there.
Which is quite a trick for guys, right?
Because we think one week of good behaviour
rebuilds all the trust in the world, and it doesn't.
Well, I think we often do, like, we think,
hang on, well, I've sorted myself out, they should see that.
You know, I'm making a big effort,
and we'd make a big effort for a week trying to do everything right,
and then, you know, your wife or your husband is still suspicious.
Because, like, well, you've taken years to break this trust,
it doesn't take one week of taking the rubbish out to mend that whole thing.
So there's this, like, suspicion of, is this for real, is this legit?
So that's what we had.
But if we get back to Dorcas' question,
which is about, you know, communicating in a way
that will ensure your husband's not intimidated,
then what you have to do is you have to first create a safe atmosphere.
And once you've got the safe atmosphere, we then,
because it's only in the safe atmosphere that you're going to get the good information
that you need to resolve that problem.
So you've got to figure out what's creating the safe atmosphere,
what's causing the tension, why haven't you got the good information?
Because you're actually asking me a question,
or asking us a question that only he can answer.
So you're asking us, how can I communicate to him without him feeling intimidated?
Well, we have no idea.
Like, he is the only one that can give you that information.
But what we do have is a couple of tools that can help you get that information.
So the first thing is always going to be creating a safe atmosphere
where someone feels like they can be vulnerable.
Because if they can't be vulnerable,
they won't give you the good information that you need.
And there's a possibility that they'll, you know,
you'll stumble into a codependent relationship
where instead of giving you the good information that you need,
they just give you what you want to hear.
And that's what I used to do a lot of.
I would just tell him what he wanted to hear so he'd leave me alone.
And that would frustrate me because she wouldn't follow through
because it would become a fake agreement.
And we would both hate each other for that.
You know, you always, you both hate each other
when you break your promises to each other.
So the tool...
The tool that we would use is the I feel I need.
So do you want to unpack that?
I feel upset when you huff over on the side of the bed when I say no.
Well, I don't feel like I like that.
You're a monkey.
So I mean, these are pretty classic statements.
People are familiar with them.
They're either called the I feel I need statements or the...
There's a name for them, another name for them as well.
But anyway, they're either I feel or I need statements.
And the key, create a safe atmosphere to get the good information.
So the I feel I need statements is...
There's like four parts to it.
When you did this, so you have to give them what's causing the issue.
But when you did this, that's the information you need.
When you did this and you've got to...
Whoever is communicating has to give the action, the behavior,
the emotion, the language, whatever it was that made them feel unsafe.
They have to give that information.
They have to figure it out.
They have to present that information to the other spouse really clearly.
They have to make sure that it's not done with attack in it.
It's not done with...
You don't use any accusational words.
It's just good information.
So when this happened, you've got to identify the action,
the behavior, the emotion, the statement.
When this happened and then I felt...
Upset, sad, disappointed.
Cool.
So that's point one.
Identifying the moment, the action that caused the unsafe.
You feel unsafe.
The second thing is how it made you feel.
And then the third thing is how you need to feel.
Like what will make you feel safe?
Like how you need to feel.
So I need to feel, for example...
I need to feel respected.
Yeah.
I need to feel like you're listening.
I need to feel like you care about my safety.
I need to feel like we're working on this as a team.
So that's the third part, is what you need to feel.
And then the fourth part,
another really amazing piece of information is...
How, like the action, you know, what's going to...
The request.
Yeah.
So the fourth piece of information is what will make you feel safe? I feel safe when you
and so you'll get all that in the workbooks and the book next week as well um
there's some like we go a little bit yeah
it's getting nice and warm the sun's just started to really beam in uh through here we've got the
to simmer it down but yeah okay sweet so I hope that's helpful he's the only one that can give
you the information um that you need hi Andrea great to see you hi other people that are jumping
in on Facebook love you guys feel free to get chatting we're just doing some Q&A um right now
so uh if anyone else has got some other questions now's the moment to drop those questions or um
or comments and just have some discussion Niamh I have a question really for you Benji if that's
okay what is it that made you you know that that I mean you said last week it was pain which of
course is always the driver that pushes us to change but it's more than that there's something
caused you to drop your defensiveness and open up and begin to say I might be reading her wrong
can you talk more about that well um yeah definitely
uh so pain was the real driver right like pain was the thing that got me asking the questions
so so people will all be motivated by different things by reward
a reward might motivate you it can be sometimes be the carrot or the stick
there's lots of different things that will motivate people um so the reward I like the
idea of the reward but you know so for me the reward would be a great marriage you know like
I would have said yes that's what I want but what if we go back to my situation the issue was blindness
as to what the problem was and I had come to the conclusion that you know Alana had already said
she had a problem right and I was acknowledging that I had a problem and that I needed help
that I was struggling in life in general and so for me I was like sweet there we go there we have
it you know like that's exactly what I thought I thought you were the problem you just said you're
the problem you've got an issue you're the problem sweet like case closed right so you're the issue
I'll pray for you I'll try and support you you need to you know you need to get help get you help
and then the marriage will be better so I guess that's the the rut that I was stuck in that she'd
already said she has a problem she's been talking to everyone we knew everyone that we thought of
that could help me so we were actively trying really hard for my sake you know we and um and
even the really good counsellors didn't bust me like the best of the best didn't bust me on my
subtle narcissism because it wasn't out front it was it was a deep-seated narcissism and blindness
that was in agreement with Alana being the problem but then I just put all the blame on her not
realizing not taking any ownership for myself so what was it that got me asking deeper questions
it was the pain it was the fact that we were in this loop right of pain and no matter what we did
to try and fix her problems it didn't stop the pain and I actually think there was one night
where we had that conversation again and Benji got so frustrated he walked out of our bedroom
and for me that was like a shit moment of like something has got to change we can't keep going
like this and I don't know for you but I do feel like that was a catalytic moment of where the pain
was so bad that he actually just left he stormed out of the house I don't even know what he did
and at some point he came home but yeah I think moments like that actually it became so overwhelming
that it's like where do we go to from here and so from my perspective anyway something like that was
probably a self-assessment type moment of like what are we going to do what am I going to do
yeah I mean that was for sure the most painful moment for us so I just
seen Dorcas is dropping some more questions about her
so Dorcas I see your questions there and we'll try and circle back there in a moment
thanks for dropping those so
can I make a comment see I think in that pain I think God intervenes and that time of
when we're really desperate you know
really, we don't have it in our natural selves.
And I think there's an, you know,
I also think there are generational strongholds
and many other things that are coming against us
that are feeding on the psychological issues.
But actually, I think, you know,
I know you to be a man of prayer.
And I think that it's the prayer that causes the chink
so that the pain does open the door
because we reached that point.
And maybe some people feel they've reached it
a thousand times, but there's a point
where it's really reached of desperation
where something just shifts.
And it's a bit like, I used to do a bit of dressmaking
for fun, you know, if you just rip that first stitch,
then you can get the seam on every time.
It's like, there's that first thing that has to give.
And I would say, Nev, that thing that had to give
is I had to ask a new question.
Yes, yes.
That I had to ask a new question
that I hadn't been willing to ask before
or that I hadn't thought to ask before.
And this is the thing with the blindness
is that it makes us blind to good questions.
You know, like a good question can lead you
to a whole new world.
And that's actually what happened for us.
It was a good question that led us to a whole new world,
but I couldn't ask the good question
because I was just blind to that concept
or that possibility that that could even be a question.
And the question was that I needed to come to ask is,
how am I contributing to the chaos in our marriage?
Yes, yes.
But I wasn't asking that question
because I'd already come to the conclusion
that Lana was causing all the problems in our marriage.
Isn't that what Jesus did?
He got, you know, people asked him questions
and he sent the question back to them.
I mean, I can't think of an example right now,
but that was a God question for sure.
That's very much the way of a Jewish rabbi is,
you know, a Jewish rabbi thinks that they've succeeded
as if someone comes to them with a question
and then they leave with a hundred more.
You know, to them, that's success.
It's not about actually answering all their questions,
it was actually about getting them to ask better questions.
Because ask, you know, like seek and you will find,
knock and the door will be open to you,
ask and you'll be given.
So this is the thing for me,
is that I was asking the wrong questions.
Well, there are some of the questions,
like I wasn't asking enough questions.
I was just asking, how do we fix Alana?
And what do I do for you?
Exactly.
And, you know, like in a loving way,
I was trying to be as loving as I could,
but totally, that's where the blindness came in.
Not asking the question of what am I doing wrong?
Where's my mess?
How am I contributing to this?
We're just like, no, no, no.
Alana's causing all the problems.
If she would stop being so stubborn
and she should just be a little bit more generous
and we can have a little bit more sex,
we wouldn't have all these conversations,
we wouldn't have this pressure, then it'd be fine.
You know, like, but really she's got all these problems
that are stopping her from doing that.
And me totally not seeing the massive context
of the chaos that I already created in our relationship,
which is why she wasn't interested in having sex.
And so it was only the pain that, you know,
like prayer always helps, right?
Prayer is great.
And like, you know, like I said last time,
I was praying so much in that season, so much.
20, 30 hours a week was like my prayer life
in that, you know, in that season.
So it was, there was a lot of prayer and worship
and ministry and glory and revivals
and conferences and outpourings.
We were in that space like all the time.
Seeing everything that we wanted happening for other people.
Oh yeah, we saw so many breakthroughs for other people.
It was so painful to watch all these other people
getting the breakthroughs that we were after.
Like the breakthroughs that we were after for Alana,
pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, just like that for other people.
Never, like, and we're just like, oh, you know.
So you're processing that as well,
but it was the pain that got me to ask a new question,
which is how am I contributing to the chaos in my marriage?
And I don't think we can underestimate
how powerful that question is
and also how few people ask that.
Yes.
To me, this is one of the biggest reasons
why there's chaos in marriages
because you don't have two people willing
to ask that question
and then take extreme ownership for the answer.
Yeah.
So let's circle back now to Dorcas and her question.
So she said, that brings me to another question.
My husband does.
like it when I ask him questions of this sort he gets frustrated because he says he doesn't know
what he wants or how to answer so I wonder what can I do then um I love your answer great stuff so
Dorcas this sounds like us but the other way around because often Benji always wanted to fix
it he was always like well okay what's the problem what can we do to fix it and I never knew
but actually in hindsight I just wanted to be heard and understood yeah totally so
if we if we look at if we look here Dorcas um at at your situation and what's missing
uh good information is missing
you know and then you have to ask why is the good information why don't you have good information
what's what's the where's the breakdown in terms of them not being good information um because I
think um I think when someone says I don't know what I want is a cop-out in a sense of it's
it's an easy it's an easy kind of option to go down so I don't know what I want
when you probably actually do but you might just have to boil it down a little bit
but it can be like an escape I'm not feeling safe I'm not feeling good about what's happening right
now I know a good way to escape from this conversation uh and then I can go and I don't
have to deal with me I don't have to deal with you I don't have to deal with this pain that I'm in
right now I'll just say I don't know and then what are you going to do it's kind of like a
stalemate checkmate uh move when if someone says I don't know it ends the conversation and
uh and I would say in a way it's kind of like I mean we can we'll we'll dialogue in this now
because that's what Lana was doing so it's like what do you need to be happy
uh and how many times did you say I don't know countless but did you actually know
often I didn't I think that I was so well probably what I needed was some sleep and some space and
some free time for me to be actually to have the space to assess what it was on a deep level that
I needed so just actually at that time I needed the basics but I didn't necessarily know how to
voice that yeah I was asking for that but not getting it yeah so um we've got Sue jumping in
here hi Sue welcome hiya how you doing oh excellent thanks excellent where are you today
I'm Sydney Australia very cool lovely to have you with us we um uh have you I don't know if you've
been following on the Facebook or if you've just jumped in just click the link now oh this is the
first one of this session I've come to um just trying to keep up with everything yeah that's so
cool that's so cool well we are right in the middle of chatting about um we're right we're right deep
in discussing our relational chaos and doing a Q&A and discussions about trying to get good
information from each other so that's that's really what we're where we're at right now so
if you've got questions feel free to store them up and we'll ask them in a moment so we're talking
about this dynamic where a person one person wants some good information about what the
issue is and the other person comes back with this answer I don't know and I think what I'm going to
do there um Dorcas on that question is I'm going to pause and share a little bit more of our story
and then I'm going to bring it back to bring it back to your
your situation here with something that I think is so relevant for marriages is
Nev after the pain came and I asked that question that was the first point it was asking a new
question so going from just blaming Alana for everything in our marriage to asking a new
question which is how am I contributing to the chaos in our marriage so I had to ask that question
and I think everyone should ask that question how am I contributing to the chaos in our marriage I
think that it's really unhealthy if you're not asking that question and it's really healthy if
you are asking that question and you probably need a little bit of like a litmus test or a
little bit of a check right how can you tell that
there's chaos in your marriage.
We probably need to do a session on that as well,
but just briefly,
how can you tell that there's chaos in your marriage?
Well, I'd use the Hebrew word shalom
to help you identify that.
So the Hebrew word shalom,
it's made up of four ancient pictograms.
You know, when they wrote it back in the day in Hebrew,
it's four ancient pictograms.
So the first picture is a picture of sharp teeth.
That's sharp teeth, meaning, which means to destroy.
The second picture was a shepherd's staff,
which means authority.
So to destroy the authority.
And the next picture was a tent peg,
which meant attached.
And then the fourth picture was a picture of the ocean,
which represented chaos.
So the original meaning of the Hebrew word
is means to destroy the authority attached to chaos.
Cool meaning of the word, eh?
To destroy the authority attached to chaos.
So when we hear people say shalom,
we hear them saying peace,
and it is correct.
It does mean peace,
but it means so much more than peace.
It's the peace that comes
when everything in your world is functioning
according to divine design.
Yes.
How good is that, right?
So it's,
and when everything in your world is functioning
according to divine design,
once you have shalom established in a person
or in a place,
that person or that place becomes an epicenter,
an expanding epicenter that is destroying chaos
all around it.
Yeah.
And the best picture that we have of that is Jesus, right?
He is shalom.
He represents shalom.
He looks like shalom.
And he was an expanding epicenter
that destroyed chaos all around it.
So if we want to like do a test on our marriage
to see how can we tell if we're creating chaos
in our marriage.
Andrea, welcome.
So good to have you with us.
Thank you.
I had to come on because Alana is here.
Yay.
Hi.
Okay.
So cool to have you with us.
We're just talking about chaos in marriage.
So to give an indication
of if there's chaos in your marriage,
here's how you can tell if there's chaos in your marriage,
if it's anything less than the divine design for marriage,
if it's anything less than everything in your marriage
operating according to divine design.
And I think this is one of the big problems
is that we've let the standard
of what marriage should be go so low
that we don't recognize that we've got a problem
until people are about to get divorced.
Because the standard is so low, right?
An average marriage in our culture
is on the verge of divorce.
And how can you tell that?
Because over 50% of marriages get divorced.
Yeah, so if you're average, you're in real danger.
If you're slightly above average,
you're in real danger of a divorce.
But even worse than that
is just living in a dysfunctional marriage.
And I think that this is something terrible in the church
that we don't talk about in the church.
It just goes on like subtly kind of,
you know, it's like one of the big skeletons in the closet
is average marriages.
Average marriages are terrible marriages to be in
where you're coping, where you're surviving,
where it's this place where you aren't getting
what you want when you want it or how you like it.
I think it's really easy to be in denial too
because for us, there were some parts that were amazing.
We were really good friends.
We loved doing stuff together.
The ministry was going phenomenally.
It was easy to kind of just shut the door on the hard parts
and carry on as though they're not there.
And then also when you're leading the ministry,
when you're pastoring a church,
who do you turn to when you're in trouble?
And so you're constantly putting on this good face
of everything's great
when actually behind closed doors, it's not.
I feel like there's a lot of pressure
on Christians in general,
but even more so if you're in any leadership
that you have to perform to the standard that people expect
and it's not okay for them to see that it's not going great.
And also if you are in leadership, it's a good chance.
I'm not saying always, but it's also a good chance
that all the other marriages around you suck.
People are struggling themselves.
So you're like, man, there's no way I'm gonna ask
any of these people for help
because that is a mess that I don't wanna get involved
with that, that looks like even worse than us, you know?
So we've got to first kind of do this gauge of,
how can we tell that there's chaos in our marriage?
And here's a good way to tell.
And I think this requires brutal.
honesty, extreme ownership, and it's I think it's so painful and I think we avoid it because
of how painful it is but we have to come to this place of going actually in this marriage
are we both getting what we want when we want it and how we like it and for us in our marriage
for both of us the answer was not even close. So I guess I want to put that there like first
of all let's let's have a bit of a standard what's the standard supposed to be in marriage
the standard in marriage is supposed to be divine design right it is and we have we can't
we can't let the culture of this world dictate what what the standard of marriage should
look like now that's so so important that we refuse to allow the standard of this world
to dictate to us what the quality and the standard of our marriages should look like
because otherwise we're going to get sold a counterfeit and it's always going to be
dysfunctional and we're never going to live in the divine design that God has for us.
So I'm just kind of coming back to this place right where the pain caused me to ask a new question
which is how am I how am I contributing to the chaos in our marriage so to understand
how I was contributing to the chaos in the marriage you kind of had to understand what
chaos looks like were we both getting what we wanted when we wanted and how we liked it
not even not even close I was like oh man how am I uh doing that it's a dangerous question
because you're probably not going to like the answer
we both came to the point that we were realizing that we were trying to take what we wanted
by force because we weren't being offered it and so that's actually quite a hard conclusion
to come to that you're trying to control each other take what you want by force when
it's not yours to take yeah yeah so I had to take so this is the question is so painful
and so hard because it's so confronting to ask ourselves like it's confronting on so
many levels how am I contributing to the chaos in our marriage because that first thing is
like oh you know we've got to justify we're always going to justify we're going to justify
the quality of our marriage oh that's just what it's always been like we're going to
justify our own behaviors this is so dangerous but we do it all the time we justify the dysfunction
in our marriage all the time and it's because no one's standing up holding up the blueprint
of divine marriage and saying hey face up you know like step up and I think often we
aren't accountable or we're afraid to if we see friends going through something or we know it
might not even be sure what it is we don't necessarily feel like we have the right to say
hey you guys okay um or or vice versa someone to come to us and say hey we're really struggling
in this area we it seems like it's really taboo it's so scary it's terrifying for me it was one
of the most terrifying concepts and uh yeah oh we'll go into it right now I'll tell you why it's
so scary for me what was so scary for me to ask for help in our marriage is because to me that was
connected with you know like the belief that if we needed help in our marriage we completely failed
like I have failed as a husband if we need help I have failed as a man if we need help I have
failed and not just a little fail like if I failed in my marriage uh this is a huge failure it's not
just a small failure this is enormous and so the sense of like failure attached to that
but produces this irrational fear which is actually what contributes to so much of our
blindness or narcissism right blindness and narcissism is not a conscious choice it's uh
it's the fruit of your subconscious processing and if you're subconsciously processing the fact
and the beliefs that to fail in marriage is the like one of the biggest ways that you could be a
failure as a person the fear attached to that subconsciously is enormous and so subconsciously
we protect ourselves in a really dysfunctional way and the way that we do that is we justify
we put up smoke screens we lie to ourselves and we put up this this barrier to the truth
truth which refuses to acknowledge that we are contributing to the chaos.
So yeah it's the deep questions so they're not easy like it's not a yes no multi-choice
quick done rapid fire answer.
So for us that's what was happening that's kind of like driving the chaos for me but
I think that one of the things that we so desperately need is to restore the standard
because we always compare ourselves to something or we justify ourselves by saying oh we're not
as bad as those guys you know we're kind of doing all right we're not that bad but yeah
we're still together we haven't separated we're still sleeping in the same bed or
you know or whatever it is but we find some way to justify our dysfunction.
And what I don't see many people doing or many ministries doing around the world is actually
just holding up not in a judgmental way or anything like that just saying hey guys yes
here's the blueprint from heaven and the invitation that God has for us to step into marriages
that look like the divine dance there's no power struggle here there's no one trying to
take anything it's a beautiful dance it's a dance of two very powerful people in a place
of extreme generosity giving abundantly to one another in service and delight in a place of
delight giving each other exactly what we want what we need and how we like it what we what we
want when we want and how we like it that's the dance and so I think that's the standard we need
to restore and hold back up so that we've actually got a direction to go to you know like we've got
a vision being restored to us it's proverbs 29 18 without a vision the people perish and if we've
lost the vision of what marriage should be like because we're surrounded by so many dysfunctional
marriages that we've justified a low stand and said this is all marriage is when really God is
saying no no I like the divine dance the fellowship of the trinity perichoresis is the blueprint
of this extravagant phenomenal outrageous love this is the blueprint for marriage where everyone
gets a ridiculous abundance of what they want when they want it and how they like it and so for
us it's kind of like a big part of it is actually just restoring the standard and yeah so I like
what you say about um the fact that we interpret uh and something not working for us as failure
which is a performance mindset not based on connection with with the loving God but and
it's shame based always because performance on shame are always going hand in hand and that very
fact that we we have that hidden shame unknown to us quite unknown to us totally subconscious
but it's there and it's it's endemic in the culture and it's in and in a christian culture
where we're aspiring to more but it's not rooted in connection and then we go into fail we we
discover something's not working and we go into this failure mentality and so we
have to drop the standard to make it okay and so the two things are kind of chicken and egg
aren't they really they're linked you know there's so many things happening in that one moment that
are all interlinked so many things this is where the seven sacred pathways they they fuse together
in moments like this because you've got the spiritual dynamic happening which is you're
taking your identity from your marriage rather than taking your identity from christ yes the
the quality of your marriage is dictating how you feel about yourself and whether or not you're
going to experience that you know that shame um that self-hatred uh that inadequacy all of those
identity issues are going to be connected to that because you don't understand you're not
operating out of this place we're exclusively defined by the trinity you've given some of you've
given marriage and performance and other things space to define you and that becomes an idol and
anytime that there's an idol and when you let something else define your identity it's an idol
you know and so the moment that we allow ourselves and we don't realize how intrinsically we take our
identity from everything else around us rather than just coming looking straight at jesus and
him being the exclusive definition of our identity but so there you see a spiritual issue coming in
play which is an identity dynamic uh then there's those those belief systems that are subconsciously
unconsciously happening which is a mental processing dynamic and then the emotions kick in
and the emotions what the emotions start doing is they boom immediately trigger an amygdala hijack
you know like we go into fight or flight uh response
which brings us out of, and you want to read the book
to get this broken down,
but it brings us out of the frontal cortex,
which is all of our smart part of our brain.
We start operating in a fight, fight from the amygdala,
where it's just like, there's no intelligence there.
It's just, and so our ability to communicate doesn't exist.
We can't communicate in that space.
So it's, you know, I love quoting David now,
but he says it's at that moment
that all adults leave the room.
You know, and so you've got two people who have triggered,
and they don't realize that they've triggered,
and they don't realize that they've triggered
because their spiritual beliefs are out of alignment,
but there they are in that place,
taking identity from a failure, triggering,
having an emotional response that, you know,
puts them in that fight, flight space
where they can't utilize any good communication skills.
That probably links into what we were talking to before,
is I don't know.
I actually can't think at the moment.
I'm not in a safe space.
I can't process.
I'm not safe.
Absolutely, that's why safe atmospheres
has to come first in any communication,
because if you don't have safe atmospheres,
you're gonna trigger,
and you're gonna be in this place of an amygdala hijack,
where a person will say, I don't know, in that sense,
and they will be honest in that moment
because they haven't got access to their frontal cortex.
They're just trying to operate
out of the fight, flight part of their brain,
and there's no information there.
Like, all that is there is,
argh, there's adrenaline, there's cortisol, there's rage.
You know, like, there's all these primal,
like, beast mode instincts that are not,
they are no good for communication.
They are, like, you know,
fight, flight, right?
If you've been chased by a tiger,
it is not the time to be like,
sit down rationally and say,
when you chew on my leg, I feel.
You know, like, your brain is like,
we don't need that information right now.
We do not need any of that information right now.
What we need is we need some violence.
We need some adrenaline pumping through our veins
so we can have superhuman strength.
And so that's, I mean, that's even why, you know,
like, couples will say things they regret,
you know, hurt someone, or anything like that happens,
because they are not using the smart part of their brain.
They're just using the fight, flight,
amygdala part of their brain.
It's just like, argh, a rage moment.
And so, yeah, so there's a lot happening in that moment
that can shut us right down.
So, I'm just trying to kind of bring this into a wrap up.
So Dorcas, hopefully that just gives you a little bit
of more context in terms of why someone might say,
I don't know.
But then, this extreme ownership moment,
let's kind of bring it back to that concept
of I don't know, right?
Well, I don't know.
What your husband has to take ownership for
in this context is that he has to realize
that I don't know is not gonna give him
the marriage that God designed for you.
So he has to take ownership of that.
And then he has to, like, get to a place
where he's not having an amygdala hijack
or where he does feel calm.
And he's gotta go and get you some good information.
That is the responsibility of each of us in our marriage,
is good information.
It's my responsibility to make you feel safe.
It's your responsibility to give me good information.
And that is, again, one of those chicken and egg moments
because which is gonna come first?
The safety or the vulnerability?
Somewhere you have to break the stalemate.
The thing that has to come first is not safety
and it's not vulnerability, it's courage.
The thing that has to always come first
is relentless courage.
Because someone's gonna have to...
You both probably feel unsafe.
You both probably don't feel like being vulnerable.
You both probably don't feel like giving out
that deep information right now.
You probably both feel like punishing each other.
But you're gonna ask yourself,
well, is that really gonna give us
the divine design for marriage?
And the answer is it's not.
So sooner or later, courage has to come in to the equation
and someone has to step into the place
where they're willing to bring out
the, start creating safety and start creating vulnerability.
So for us, the pain leads me to ask a new question,
which is how am I causing chaos in our marriage?
But that question is such a terrible question
because that question alone can cause an amygdala hijack.
You know, that question alone can cause you to flip out
and go, ah!
Like, me being an issue, all of a sudden there's that sense of failure, it's that sense of,
oh my gosh, all those things, and I'm not enough, inadequacy, all those things get triggered
in that moment, and then we automatically go back into, you know, like, fight or flight,
and so we can't get good information, so we can kind of get stuck in this place.
So what you're going to have to do somehow is work through this, and it might take, like,
it doesn't happen overnight, you know, it took us a long time, took us years of struggling
processing through this, but I had to come to that place of taking ownership and stopping
all this relentless justification.
And it takes both of you as well, like, it's not down to one person to create that safe
atmosphere, it takes both of you actually willing to work on it.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, there's no way, there's no way around that.
It's possible, right, it's possible for anyone, if they apply the principles of, you know,
that we put in the Seven Sacred Pathways, it's possible for anyone to create a marriage
like that, but I'd actually do a shout out to all the singles, it's way easier for you,
start now, right, because with a single person, you get to choose your canvas, right, you
get, you know, you get a blank canvas, and your canvas isn't always exactly what it makes
out to be, you know, there's plenty of people that have lied and, you know, in terms of
who they are to get married to someone, and then they change, but in general, when you,
if you're a single person, you get to choose your canvas, like, if you're like us, right,
and you wake up realising, obviously, we were single people, and we were stoked that we
chose each other, but then we woke up and not wanting to be married to each other.
Oh, you're like, not liking this marriage. Actually, I don't think it was waking up,
not wanting to be married, it was going to sleep. After that conversation. Yeah, it was,
it was a whole, like, it was a whole marriage, we were like, I don't think we actually want
to be married to each other right now. So people will be in all sorts of different places
of their, of their journey. But if you are single, it's really cool, kind of like a really
cool opportunity to start taking extreme ownership now, it's so much easier. But if you're already
in a marriage, and like us, we didn't want to be married to each other. And we were like,
not really even acknowledging that, but feeling that. And then going, right, I've got to take
extreme ownership. So the, and I can't highlight or emphasize enough how important it is
to stop justifying that we relentlessly justify dysfunction. And that's where the marriage,
the blueprint has to come back, has to be restored. So you have to be able to justify
that. The blueprint restored for marriage, which is the, you know, the divine dance,
God's, God's blueprint for marriage, everyone getting what they want, when they want it,
how they like it in a radical abundance of it. Everyone having, having all their needs,
their wants, their dreams and their desires abundantly met. That's the divine design
without manipulation or control, but through generosity and extravagance, that that's the,
that's the blueprint. So one, we have to actually re-acknowledge that this is what marriage looks
like. Yeah, this is, this is the standard. This is God's standard marriage. This is the blueprint.
This is what we're going after. So we have to acknowledge that we actually have to take
ownership that, that God didn't design marriage for, you know, to be average or to be, you know,
dysfunctional. I guess like it's this, we have to see a new blueprint, right? Because people
have just got these dysfunction. They've, they've, they've justified dysfunction as okay.
And they say, no, this is okay in a marriage. And I think what God wants to do for us is destroy
our dysfunctional definitions of what's okay in marriage and restore the blueprint and say,
actually guys, this is what's okay. And dysfunction's not okay. And I want you guys
to come over here because you're going to enjoy yourselves more than you've ever imagined.
So. And to do that, we have to ditch shame. Yeah, we're going to have to ditch a lot of things,
but that, that blueprint has to be restored. And then once that blueprint's restored, then we can,
we can start answering. So how am I creating chaos in our marriage? Once we've seen the
blueprint restored and go, oh, well, this is what marriage is supposed to look like.
Or here's, once we can see what marriage is supposed to look like, we can then
have the contrast to actually accurately.
define and identify dysfunction.
If the blueprint hasn't been stored,
there's no contrast to actually say,
you know, if everything's gray,
if there's no black and no white,
you can't say, well, that's unhealthy and this is healthy,
and this is God's design and this is not.
So you can easily justify,
and when you live in the gray zone,
when you haven't grabbed ahold of God's blueprint,
he goes, oh, you justify punishing each other,
justify being selfish.
But when God's standard is restored,
you can't justify anymore.
It's like the light, you know, you turn the light on,
it's like, whoa, everything gets exposed,
and no one wants to turn the light on and get exposed.
No one wants their darkness to be exposed,
but this is what God wants to flip the light on
in our marriages and go, ta-da, this is my blueprint.
But the moment the light flicks on,
you cannot hide the dysfunctions,
like, oh, right there, oh, there's a lot of codependency,
there's a lot of power struggle,
there's a lot of manipulation,
there's a lot of control, there's a lot of sulking.
Wow, there's some bad atmospheres,
there's some unhealthy emotions,
there's an identity crisis.
It's like, it's all right there
when we flip the light on of restoring the standard.
So once the standard's restored,
then you ask yourself, well, how am I creating the chaos?
That's when I had to start taking ownership.
For me personally, one of the worst things
that I was doing in our marriage
was when Alana turned me down, I'd initiate sex.
Wow, she's not surprised, she turned me down,
I just really had a plan in place,
not all the time, but just the majority of the time.
And so, then I would, then,
this is one of the first things
I had to take ownership for,
is then I would punish her by sulking.
I'd create an unsafe atmosphere,
I'd be judging her, punishing her,
it would all be sparking, I'm like, ah, sulking,
weaponizing my emotions,
and then she'd want me to be vulnerable.
Yeah, right?
And so, what I had to do is I had to just take ownership
of that and go, whoa, what a loser, what a loser.
Like, I'm bringing this, we sometimes joke about
calling it a crapmosphere,
bringing this crapmosphere into my bedroom.
What, why would I do that?
Like, if I wanna get sex, I have to realize
that sulking is so not sexy, it is not sexy.
I don't know if you've ever seen someone having a big sulk
and just being outrageously turned on.
Probably a lot of guys have been,
because that doesn't really matter.
It's just like, wow, a lady.
But in general, sulking is not sexy.
And so, what was I thinking that in my brain,
I thought, I want more sex, I know what I'll do,
I'll sulk and totally wreck the atmosphere
in our bedroom, this'll work amazingly well.
And you know what, I'm not gonna do it once,
I'm gonna do it hundreds of times.
And yeah, it didn't work well.
So, I had to take ownership for that.
So, it was like, whoa, I gotta completely change the game.
So, that meant that when Alana, you know,
when I decide, okay, I'm gonna take ownership
for this behavior of mine, this unsafe atmosphere,
it meant that when she initiated,
you know, if I initiated and she turned me down,
I'd be like, okay, babe, no worries.
No sulking, and so she's like,
waiting for this negative atmosphere
to come like a storm into the room.
Okay, bless you, Sue, so cool to have you with us.
Yeah, all good.
And then it didn't happen.
Then no storm.
It took a while for me to,
like for him to rebuild that trust with me.
Yes.
In that area.
Yeah, so that's a thing for guys as well, right?
It's not instant.
The rebuilding the trust is not instant.
It didn't just take a week of good behavior
to sort that out.
It took, you know, repetitive,
like consistent, safe behavior to restore the standard.
Yeah, cool.
Well, I think,
cool, yeah, I think we'll just kind of wrap it up.
From there, unless there's another question.
Andrea, have you got anything right
on the tip of your tongue?
I don't.
It was amazing.
This is my first class with,
on this, on this panel.
So I'm really excited about it.
I'm really excited about it.
Class with, on this topic.
So I'm just kind of soaking it in
and getting the vibe here,
but this is really good.
That's cool. I just got married in October 2020 so you know I'm like okay I'm gonna set us up for
success and try to avoid some of some of these stories. Absolutely that's cool so can we just
chat with you for a moment before we let you before we wrap up because just yeah cool cool.
So where are you guys?
Uh-oh.
Uh-oh. Yeah okay good it froze for a minute I thought I lost you. So we're in San Diego,
California. We're actually about about 30 minutes away from uh Sub and Claire where they live.
Great that is so cool um so you got married in October last year that's so fun. Yeah it is and
I married a uh childhood friend I've known him since I was eight years old. Yes that's amazing
and so you guys is this uh first marriage second second marriage? Yeah this is my second marriage
and um this is his
third marriage so we um we actually we were together for six years before we got married
and um we went through some counseling before we got married to uh you know work out some
communication issues and to try and set us up for some success so uh but you can't you know
I think you can't work on it enough you know you can't you you can't bring enough God enough
enough godly input into your marriage you know I'm like keep it coming yeah.
Very cool that's great well we'll be excited to be sharing the book with you guys
next week um it is done we're just doing a couple of tiny little touches on it and then we'll
unleash so um but Andrea why don't you close for us in prayer as we uh as we wrap up for today.
Amen okay oh heavenly father you are just good all the time all the time you are so so good
and we uh we just love this father I love this I love that the vulnerability and the openness
and the passion and just the truth you know just the truth that uh Benji and Alana are
laying out there uh and I'm just so grateful to have uh you know to have this at this time
in my life where people are talking about true things things that uh really come up
in in marriage and I love they God you're not afraid you know to address real issues and we
can talk about things in in an honest way and we don't have to pretend like everything's perfect
all the time and that's just amazing father and we just thank you that you're there for us father
you're always there to meet our needs you're always there to show us the the better way the
good path father the narrow path God you show us you have a blueprint for us father and you are
revealing that uh to us through this teaching and we're just so thankful to uh to receive that God
we're just so thankful that you uh you don't leave us floundering here uh with no direction
and uh God we just we seek you we honor you we bless you father we uh we just are so grateful
for your holy spirit for the trinity just we want to dance with the trinity in our marriages
in our friendships in our parenting in our relationships in our lives God uh and we are
just uh just amazed at who you are and just it's your amazing goodness thank you for this teaching
thank you for this day may everyone just walk out of here uh feeling empowered and blessed and
hopeful God in Jesus holy name we pray amen bless you guys we'll catch you soon and have a
wonderful weekend um if anyone's just tracking on this as well tomorrow 7 a.m New Zealand time is
when we are giving away the free kingdom businesses so bless you and we'll catch you soon see ya