Hi Joan, how are you doing?
Hi, how are you doing?
I've just got a whole lot of noise in the background.
I'm trying to eliminate.
Very good.
Whereabouts are you, Joan?
Timaru.
Timaru, cool.
I saw you there the other day,
but I couldn't, I didn't hear anything coming back from you.
Oh, okay.
No, I did pop into that meeting.
It was really cool,
and it was the first time I managed to go online, yeah.
Great, well, that is so cool.
So good to have you with us.
Do you want more?
Sonja and Elise and Janice, welcome.
I think we're live now in the school.
Sonja and Anthony.
So, hey, hey, Sonja, there you are.
You're gone, you were there, you were gone.
Riptured.
No, still here.
There you are, there you are.
I see you there, mate.
So, is that Sonja and Riptured, is it?
Anthony.
Yeah, yeah.
Hello, Benji.
Perfect.
Hello, Alana.
Whereabouts are you guys?
Whangarei.
Oh, very cool, very cool.
That's great, welcome.
And, Elise, how are you doing?
You made it.
Whereabouts are you?
See you, Elise there.
I see Alicia, what's going on?
Syncing.
Facebook.
Hey, I'm here, can you hear me?
Wow.
It's Elise, I think.
Elise, hi.
Hi, I'm listening from Vermont, the USA.
Oh, very cool.
That is great.
It's so good to have you with us from Vermont.
Thank you.
Your name here, your Zoom name says Elise Vermont.
Yes, yeah.
That's not your last name as well, is it?
No, my last name is Christian.
Okay, there you go.
I was wondering if it was gonna be,
I thought it would be unusual
if it was Elise Vermont from Vermont.
No, it's just, it was encouraged
that I, for a different Zoom group
that I put my state in.
Yeah, that's great.
Very cool.
Well, it's wonderful to have you with us.
Thank you.
We'll just be chatty for a little bit.
It's great to have you guys jumping on board
and it's cool.
Just sometimes it takes a little minute
for people to get here,
but we've got a great crew here already.
So, Timaru, the deep south of New Zealand,
and then Whangarei, the far north,
and then Vermont, and then Janice,
where abouts are you today?
New York.
New York, as always.
Fantastic.
That's cool.
Elise, it's nice to see your face as well.
Very cool to see you.
It's wonderful to have you in this group.
Thank you.
And hello to our people on Facebook watching as well.
And if you are on Facebook,
you should come and jump in the Zoom room with us
because it's always more fun in the Zoom room.
Who has had a chance to check out the book so far?
Seven Sacred Pathways Intimacy book.
Anyone?
Not yet.
Not yet?
That's all right.
Let me just drop a link for you
in the chat here.
I'll just drop a link there
so that everyone's got access to a copy of the book,
the e-book, the audio book.
The audio book.
Okay.
Got the link.
There it is.
Cool, okay.
So I'm just dropping this in the chat for everyone.
So this is actually,
I'm giving you like a hundred dollar gift here.
There's three books, two audio books, two workbooks,
all in that link.
So in the chat, you can see that there.
And then I'll drop this in the comments on the video too
here in the online School of Sonship.
Veronica is joining us.
Wonderful.
Okay.
Okay, we'll just drop this.
So there we go.
Everyone, here you go.
Alicia, you three are watching.
That's fantastic.
Very cool.
You should definitely jump in the Zoom room,
Alicia and Zephaniah.
There you go.
There's the link to the book as well.
Beautiful. Well, we're going to get started in a moment. Veronica, welcome. Good to have
you with us. Okay, Veronica, how are you doing? You're on mute, my beautiful friend. So, you're
doing a lip sync there. Can you hear me now? Yeah, perfectly. Okay, cool. I've got some
friends here that I brought along. This is Vanessa. Hey, Vanessa. Hi. And also, Gemma.
Hello, how are you? Hey, Gemma. Cool to have you guys tuning in. Very cool. Yeah. I mean,
we were just talking about raising royalty and so I said, why don't we listen? Yeah,
that's fantastic. What a great move. So, why don't we get Joan. Can you still hear us in
the deep south? If you want to unmute, Joan, we'd love to have you pray for us as we kick
off the session. Can you still hear us there, Joan? If you can unmute first, because if you
are talking, we can't hear you. You just need to unmute.
No, Joan? All right, Elyse. Now, Elyse. Yes. We've met only once before, right? Yeah, I met
you in the Pokakoe Bookstore when I was living in New Zealand. That must have been nearly 15
years ago that we met. 14 years. It was 2007. Yes. You gave me your vision and you gave me a
little booklet that I kept for a long time and I prayed for you and I was thrilled when I found
you on Facebook. I think it was somewhere in the late night. I think it was a couple years later
that I became your friend on Facebook. And then I just sort of stayed in touch. Unfortunately,
I have lived a lot of my years without internet and that makes it very difficult for me to
participate. Yeah. Well, welcome to the internet. Why don't you pray for us as we get going on this
session, which is going to be a lot of fun. Okay. Father in heaven, we thank you and we
praise you for who you are, for being a God who is close and who is our help. Thank you,
Lord, for being Elohi Hasedi, God of our mercy. Thank you, Father, for wanting our
full attention and for caring about the intimate details of our life. We thank you for wanting to
know us and to be known. And Lord, we're so grateful for the love that you pour out on a
daily basis in our lives. And we ask you for wisdom for Benji and Alana. Give us understanding,
Father. May your spirit be here in this discussion. We praise you for all that you're doing around the
world. And Lord, so many people need to feel claimed by your love. And we thank you for
calling us beloved in Christ and that we are complete in you. And we pray these things in
Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Beautiful. Cool, family. Now, let me do something quickly for those that
are new to this group. I'm going to share my screen and just show you how to navigate
in the online School of Sonship a little bit better. Okay, so if you're new to the online
School of Sonship, which is where you are right now, and you want to find your way around, if
you just go through the guide, like through the newsfeed here, look, there we are. If you just go
through here, you'll really easily get lost because it's just kind of random, you know, whatever
people are commenting on just pops up in the newsfeed. So if you want to actually navigate
easily, you come up to this section here on guides and you click on guides, and then you can find a
bit of an orientation, you can see the foundations course, you can see here's the Seven Sacred
Pathways to Intimacy. So I'll put this session up here. If you want to catch up on the sessions,
they're here. The Open Heaven Masterclass, which is our current live training that we're doing,
that's all here. If you want to be a part of the Daily Hard Things Challenge that we're doing,
then you want to check out this video here, the Foundations for Exponential Growth, which gives
you all the context for that. So we'll wrap that up there. But if you've got questions,
you can obviously ask those questions and we'll help you navigate the school.
But for now, let's just do a little bit of a catch up on where we're at in the Seven Sacred Pathways.
So, first of all, let's just feel free to chat for a moment here, but who's caught some
of these sessions before, you've been on the live, or you've been on the replay, or you've
read the book?
Where are people at?
Veronica, you were with us last week.
Yes, yes, and I really enjoyed it, and you know, although it was mostly talking about
a relationship between couples, and you know, like I've been divorced for 20 years, and
yet I still found some really good understanding and strategies when listening to last week's
kōrero.
Awesome, that's great, very cool, Sonia and Anthony, have you guys, you guys might need
to unmute so we can hear you, have you been tracking along?
I listened to like the chaos one, which is, you know, I was listening to that last night,
but yeah, we've been a bit of in a chaos situation ourselves, and coming out of it, getting persecution
because I was obedient to God to come back to Anthony, and situation with the kids, we
need to get a kid that kind of, a little hard to take, and hard to deal with, but when the
Lord says it's about us, because it's where we came together, focusing on unity within
it, all of us, it's not about our children, it's about us first, before our children,
so remembering that, and the importance, so that type of has been a roller coaster for
us right now, but it's been strong, and yeah.
It's all because I'm a nutter, and I have to learn to balance it with, you know, reality
and truth.
Okay, well that's a good bit of information, and we're going to be talking today a lot
about good information, so we will put information like I'm a nutter, but we might go a little
bit deeper, so sometimes if people feel safe, we do kind of a little bit like a Dr. Phil
on their relationship, so just depends on how safe people feel to share their story
where they're at, and we can journey on those things.
So we'll jump back to you guys in a minute, and you guys want to just start, have a little
think, because I'll definitely come back to you and see if you feel like talking about
your story, and how, you know, we might dissect it if you want, so you can kind of think about
that.
Janice, I know you've been with us for quite a few of the sessions.
Joan, have you caught any of the replays on the Seven Sacred Pathways?
I haven't seen any of the sessions, but I'm wearing a good part of the block.
Oh, fantastic, very good.
Well done.
Janice, you've been tracking with most of these sessions, haven't you?
Yeah, some of them, yeah, I think I got about three of them, or four.
Cool, cool, yeah, sweet.
Well, this is number five, and if anyone wants to go back and catch any of the replays, you
know where to find them now, they're on the guide section, you know where to get the book,
the book is in the description of this video, and in the chats here in this section, so
yeah, cool, cool, I'm just going to mute you now, Janice.
So, what we're talking about today,
anything to add on this so far, babe, in chatting this?
No, nothing to add?
Cool, cool.
So, we are talking about the foundational pathways today, which is following on from
last week, so last week, we talked about the first two of the three foundational pathways.
So, the Seven Sacred Pathways, obviously, there's seven, first three, babe?
Oh, don't ask me.
Don't ask me.
My head's scrambled.
Yeah, she's had a little bit of a wild week this week, but so the first three pathways,
the first one is the spiritual pathway, and when you read the book, which I encourage
you to check out, we go deep into the fact that identity really is the key there, that
the spiritual pathway determines your ability as an individual to receive and to express love.
So, if you have got holes, gaps, chaos, dysfunction in your spiritual mindsets and
understandings, then you, and I would suggest that nearly every Christian that I've talked
with, journeyed with, has had major, major gaps in their relationship, in their understanding
of their identity, in their understanding of
the like the image of God and every time there's gaps in our image of God or gaps in our understanding
of our identity the result is the inability to receive divine love perfectly and the inability
to express divine love perfectly but when we mature in our spiritual identity or mature in our sonship
which is why we have the online school of sonship so people can actually go on that journey
when we mature in our spiritual identity in our sonship the result is what spiritual
maturity looks like is the ability to receive divine love perfectly and the ability to give
perfect expression to divine love so that's why that's like the number one foundation for all
relationships is because you're no longer in a place of need you're not you know you you are
actually your love tanks are filled up by God's you're in this beautiful place you can receive
love express love you've mastered that in your relationship with God and then it's actually
really easy to do that with other people whereas if you're living in this place of a love deficit
then you will naturally kind of be like a love lynch you know when you're in a relationship
with someone instead of serving you'll be there like trying to just suck the love out of them
good for survival and then um uh Lavinia welcome good to have you joining us from Australia
uh and then the second one is the emotional pathway so the emotional pathway uh it determines
your ability to communicate love effectively right so spiritual pathway determines your ability to
receive and express love the emotional pathway determines your ability to communicate love
effectively right so um if you're if you're unsafe you know if you've got unsafe emotions
unsafe behaviors uh unsafe atmospheres unsafe attitudes around you people are going to shut
down people going to close off people are going to we talked about last week have an amygdala
hijack right where they go into the fight or flight zone and when someone goes to fight or
flight zone they no longer have access to the frontal cortex of their brain this is the smart
part of our brain that does all of our thinking um that gets shut down and we start operating out
of this tiny little two tiny little bits of our brain called the amygdala um which are our fight
flight parts of our brain when we're in a when we have an emotional uh an amygdala hijack or an
emotional kind of freak out you can people call it all sorts you know that person really freaked
out they melted down you know you guys will have lots of language for it whoa man they lost it you
know those are all words that we use to describe someone having an amygdala hijack and in
relationships it's really really common and when we're talking to people some people it's so scary
just to talk to someone that they have a total shutdown meltdown freak out just trying to talk
and and when that happens they're like oh i can't get my words out or all these things start
happening just because they're operating out of the fight flight part of your brain and there's
no intelligence there right so for me every conversation was i don't know he would ask me
a question wanting to get good information and i don't know i don't know what you want right now i
don't know what to tell you for me that was my like i just shut down and it was so frustrating
for me it drove him crazy oh wild crazy that that like my response to her meltdown was to melt down
myself because i'm like i need you to tell me something and she was just like i got nothing for
you i'm like how can you say that if you love me right it's only been in hindsight that we've
realized that that was the case that i was an overload it was too much and it caused my brain
to shut down so i literally didn't know what i wanted because i couldn't process it yeah
that that that led to like our biggest meltdown ever um led to my biggest meltdown ever and um
uh because you know like for me anyway we were having trying to have this deep meaningful right
where i'm really desperate to like hear something from her some type of response and she couldn't
give me anything and i was like i'm so desperate right now for you just to chat for you just to
communicate in some way so i can fix it yeah well or i need something and she because she's having
this amygdala hijack she's got no access to the smart part of her brain so all she can give me is
i don't know and when you're totally desperate and you're begging someone for something and all
they got is i don't know you're like do you love me i don't know why so
that caused me to freak out a lot yeah so that's the emotional side of things right and the key to
them like one of the most important parts of being able to communicate effectively
is being able to maintain safe atmospheres right and you guys will know this right you can unmute
if you want to share a story on this but why don't we have a couple of people share on this
but who's ever felt unsafe who's ever walked into a situation and felt really unsafe
you need to unmute i think i can see you talking veronica why don't you tell us
oh no sorry i just asked my friends if they want to say something
sorry benji that's all right well hey um i mean you've been divorced for 20 years you said
20 plus years yeah 20 plus years so 25 years 25 years can i ask why you got divorced what
was your story well um i mean we were we got married really young and um we're 17 going on 18
we had six children together um i was when i went back to church and uh my husband at the time
came back to came to the lord about three years into our marriage um but then he was hurt
he's a young christian and he got hurt within the church and he just turned around and said to me
basically um if that's your jesus basically he said up yeah he just said i don't want him
and um while we stayed together for the 20 years um it was very difficult and he just
basically had an ultimatum and um and then we parted and what was the ultimatum the ultimatum
basically was god or him in the family he felt that i wasn't giving attention to the family
and um i think there were times we were too afraid to be honest with each other about how
we were feeling about stuff and we didn't want to hurt each other but in the long run we ended up
hurting each other to the max where we but uh we're good friends still and i to be honest benji
i think there's still there's still that love there but it's like 25 years of water under the
bridge and and and we've grown apart in different ways ways but um but we he's still very close to
the children my sons and my grandchildren so and we're good friends but um i just don't think we
were honest or brave enough to be honest with one another yeah yeah that's a big deal that's
so much of what we covered last session eh it was about courage courageous conversations
that's what i wrote in my book i said wow it takes courage
yeah it takes so much courage so can you if you remember back to your marriage what was one of
the most unsafe feelings that you had and the situations that made you feel most unsafe um
i felt unsafe because i wasn't sure whether um i would lose lose him by being honest with him
you know um and i was afraid of losing him and that was one of the fears uh huge fears um until
years and years later and um i no longer have those fears but yeah i didn't want to lose him
yeah so this is interesting how that plays out right so out of a fear of not wanting to lose him
right uh you lied to him
i never thought like that but yep you were you didn't give him good information
yeah um it's called a codependent relationship and like it's a it's a
codependent relationship in some ways like normally a codependent relationship is
and let me just kind of create like a little bit of a spectrum right so you can have
um on one end of the scale you've got powerful people right and and you you need two powerful
people to have intimacy like we're talking about because what we're talking about in this series
is about creating mind-blowing intimacy about creating heaven's finest intimacy it's not about
creating what we've seen before in the church it's not about how do you create a normal christian
because divorce statistics will tell you that a normal Christian marriage is totally dysfunctional,
right? So I don't want to help anyone have a normal Christian marriage because according to
the statistics, a normal Christian marriage will end in divorce. So I don't think anyone wants a
normal Christian marriage, right? So if we want to have an out-of-this-world Christian marriage,
which is what we're called to have, something really exceptional that is one of the best
examples of what heaven on earth looks like, that's what our marriages are supposed to be.
Our marriages are supposed to be the hub of heaven on earth. The greatest picture,
it's the greatest opportunity that we get to create an authentic expression of heaven on earth
is in our marriages. So that's where really where we're supposed to be creating
heaven on earth, you know, it's, you're welcome, Alicia and Zephanias, welcome guys.
So, but it takes two really powerful people to create a heaven on earth marriage. Other types
of marriage that you can get is you can get a power struggle relationship, right? So a power
struggle relationship is when there's two very assertive people, but they don't actually have
the skill sets to get what they want, when they want, and how they want it without manipulation
and control. So two assertive people, they kind of go at things, but they're always fighting each
other. It's like, I'm going to fight for this. But maybe you get sick of that in a relationship,
or maybe somewhere along the way, someone learned to not be assertive in a relationship.
So they become like, they become the person that always says yes.
And so out of fear of upsetting the other person and causing a fight, they just say, yes, yes.
And one person often likes that because they like to dominate because they're a freak. And the other
one, well, not necessarily a freak. I think to a degree, we all have different levels of this.
You know, it's a spectrum. It's on the same spectrum. It's a journey for all of us in our
process of how we go through this. But you've got that person, you've got that relationship where
there's the assertive people who are fighting, two assertive people fighting all the time. It's a
power struggle relationship. Or you can have that codependent relationship where one person's always
saying yes, just to please the other person. But it's a passive aggressive way of doing relationships
because you say yes, yes, yes, yes. But that person actually often starts hating the other person.
But the problem, it's not just the dominating person that has the issue.
The yes person is never giving any good information, right? The yes person is actually
lying to them saying, yes, that's great with me. And the outside, they say yes, but on the inside,
like, I hate you for asking. So you've got those three kind of marks on the relationship
spectrum, which could be a power struggle, it could be codependent, or it could be two powerful people.
And we're all on this journey somewhere of moving along. But we have to both become
powerful people if we want a heaven on earth marriage where we each get to participate
in heaven's finest intimacy possible. So Veronica, where would you say you were at
in your relationship? Kat and Kiki, welcome. In my relationship now? Or back then when you
were married, where would you say your relationship was? Oh, after listening to that probably on that codependent.
Okay, so were you the yes person? I think he was more the yes person, probably.
Okay, so he was the yes person, you were more the like, sweet, we'll do it my way. Yeah.
And the problem is that, like, you, it's in a codependent relationship, your
dysfunction fuels, like, you get synergy in the wrong direction. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you kind of create this,
you create this chaos, and your chaos is bouncing off each other.
So in that context, you said you also didn't give him the truth out of fear of losing him.
Yeah, it was, yeah. So it's kind of a bit of both ways as well there, isn't it?
Neither of you was giving each other good information. Yeah.
Yeah, so, let me ask you guys, who would like the type of relationship where you both get
exactly what you want, when you want it, and how you like it, without manipulation or control?
Yes?
Who likes the idea of that?
Yes?
Okay, sweet.
So, if we want that type of relationship, then we have to master the foundational pathways
first, okay?
So, we've talked about the spiritual pathway, we've talked about the emotional pathway.
The emotional pathway is so, I mean, they're both so critical to master, but the emotional
is going to create a safe context, a safe atmosphere, a safe process and way of how
we communicate.
So, if you master the spiritual one, and like I said, these are all a journey, right?
It's got to be a real journey for all of us.
Hi, Alanis was typing something in there in the chat for you guys.
The spiritual pathway, you master that, everything starts getting easier.
The emotional pathway, you master that, it starts becoming safe to be vulnerable, right?
But the third one we're talking about is the intellectual pathway.
And this intellectual pathway is all about knowing your spouse really, really well.
And so, there's two things that we really, really need to master the intellectual pathway.
So, those two things are curiosity and vulnerability.
Curiosity and vulnerability, okay?
Who can guess why we need curiosity?
Just wave your hand around, we'll unmute you.
Hi, asking questions.
Okay, Alice is already unmuted.
So, Alice, why would curiosity, why would we need curiosity if we want to have a type
of marriage where we both experience, both receive exactly what we want, when we want
and how we like it without manipulation or control?
Curiosity means to me, asking questions to be able to, the right questions to be able
to communicate clearly.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
That's right.
So, what curiosity is going to do, where curiosity is going to take us is, curiosity is going
to take us way beyond just the five love languages.
So, I'm going to mute, who knows the five love languages?
Hang on a second, let's go over, Anthony's waving his hand around.
And Janice, hands going here.
I'd feel awesome right now if I was an evangelist.
I think curiosity is about two things.
It's about, one, problem solving on a daily basis.
And it's also about creativity and wonder, the mystery of life and the wonder of life.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, when we put that curiosity into the context of a relationship, let me give another little
bit of context here that's really foundational mindsets around why you're even married.
And what a divine blueprint would look like for marriage, right?
You can have a think about this, see if you agree with it.
But I would suggest to you that when you get married, you have the privilege of becoming
the world expert on your spouse, right?
When you get married, you get to become the leading world expert on your spouse.
That's one of the privileges that's given to you, right?
Just a ring, right?
A ring doesn't make that happen.
Ta-da!
One ring.
So there's a ring, right?
But a ring doesn't make you the world expert, right?
The expert just makes you married.
One of the reasons why you would want to be the world expert is actually to fulfill one
of the divine purposes for marriage, which is to be a dream maker for your spouse.
I think this is the beautiful thing about serving one another in love, is that we both
get to serve each other.
Well, that can be a journey, but wouldn't...
Who thinks that they would like the type of marriage where the other person, without feeling
intimidated, without feeling manipulated, without feeling controlled, the other person
has devoted their life wholeheartedly to helping you live your wildest dreams?
Who would like that type of marriage?
See I believe that's the divine blueprint, right?
I believe that that's what love looks like.
That's actually God's original intent for marriage, it's not like hating each other
and not power struggles and not codependent relationships, but two powerful people coming
together with such a love for each other that they're out of love, not out of manipulation
or control, but out of love for each other, they're more than happy to devote their lives
to fulfilling the wants, needs, dreams and desires of their spouse.
Who likes that kind of blueprint for marriage?
Can I say something there, Benji?
Oh, please do, Lavinia.
What language would you like to speak in?
Let me relay my story to you first.
I think you probably would be able to identify it better than I myself, I don't know whether
that's denial or what, but I find it very interesting because I serve my husband to
a tee and it interests a lot of people, my friends as well as visitors.
Sometimes I would withdraw and say, well, why am I doing this?
Because I love the guy, but I'm also looking for a balance and that doesn't always happen.
Then I start withdrawing quietly.
It comes out in the bedroom.
You know what I mean?
No, what do you mean?
I withdraw because, and then he's saying, what's going on?
But I'm at the stage now, because we're now 50 years married.
I say to him, I feel as though I'm doing everything.
I'm pulling this tug of war by myself.
Where are you in this equation?
But he's not always aware of that.
Yeah.
Come on, tell me what you're saying here.
It's still like that.
There's an unbalance.
It's uneven.
I'll give my all, not only to him, but to my family.
And sometimes I feel like I'm being manipulated or what am I looking for?
Those are the questions I'm still asking myself.
Obviously, we're only looking at one piece of the puzzle, right?
We can see your piece and that's just a real short testimony there.
So it's kind of a little bit challenging for us, you know, when we just hear one little
snippet.
Well, I was going to say, in some ways, we were like that too.
I felt like I was doing everything I could to keep Benji happy and satisfied and all
of that kind of thing.
And despite me communicating to him what I needed and feeling like I was doing a really
good job at communicating what I needed, he didn't get it.
And so it became a downward spiral of bad communication, bad results.
Beautiful.
So for your story, Lavinia, it could be in line with what we're talking about here in
terms of the intellectual pathway is all about good information.
I mean, so much of it depends on really where your husband's heart is at.
And this could be a good space for a courageous conversation as well, right?
Which courageous conversations belong to both the emotional pathway and the intellectual
pathway.
Because courageous conversations are about getting good information.
So it could be like, hey, where are you at in this marriage?
It could be like having, OK, hey, where are you at in this marriage?
What do you want from this marriage?
What do you think winning looks like in this marriage?
And having a bit of a reassess, which actually goes with the Seven Sacred Pathways.
Have you put that out yet?
Yeah.
This link here, you can get the workbook.
And so in there, there's lots of really good questions for helping you assess what you
want and need and for your husband or wife to assess what they want to need.
And then you can come together and compare notes.
And so the whole point of that is so that you can come out with good information.
So that might be worth looking at as well, because it's all sort of broken down into
questions there.
If anyone here is married,
I think that doing the workbook together is one of the craziest challenges you could ever do together.
You will get the most amazing, saucy, deep information that you could. I don't know that
there's any marriage resources out there that will give you as much good information on your spouse
as you'll get by doing the Seven Sacred Pathways to Intimacy Workbook. So that would be a definite
challenge. You'll get so much good information, then it will be really interesting what you do
with that. I think it's really helpful too for you to be able to assess the root of
what you're struggling with and what's the actual root of why this is a problem for you and so that
enables you to then give him good information. The other thing that I'd really drop and then
Lavinia as well is, you're withdrawing rather than giving him good information. You're trying
to communicate something by withdrawing and that slowly, slowly goes on, slowly like a day of
withdrawing, a couple of days and then all of a sudden he's not getting the sweet loving that he
was after and all of a sudden you come to this big climactic moment of having a really significant
conversation because he's not getting sex and it's like oh well you could have like, my question
to you is like what's stopping you from giving him good information like three days before that
while it's not a problem? Oh good one. I think withdrawing long-term leads to what most people
would say we grew apart and it's not we grew apart, it's we withdrew from the conversation.
Because the passive-aggressive way of like doing relationship, you know, if there's a
one person's the yes person, one person's slightly dominating or getting, receiving everyone, one
person's always serving and then one person's always taking. The person who's doing all the
serving and you might be able to fit this, I don't know your story, your relationship well
enough to know, yeah you do, you could figure this out. If you fitted that space, the classic
symptom or kind of behaviors of the passive-aggressive person is they're saying yes and
they're doing so much for the other person that they actually start resenting them and their way
of maintaining control is they actually start punishing them by withdrawing, by withholding.
So they withhold their feelings, they withhold their, how they really feel, what they really
think, they withhold that and it starts with that and then it kind of builds and builds and
builds and then there's kind of like, you know, a stronger expression of punishment that comes out.
Yeah, yeah. Hold on, hold on. I don't think we're at that stage because I'm finding that he
withdraws. If I give a lot of information it's like he's searching for an answer but I don't
always get that answer at that moment. It comes out maybe the following day or two days later.
It's strange. So potentially he just needs time to process. I often need time to process,
so Benji wants the answer now but actually if I have some time to think about it or talk it through
then he gets the honest answer rather than just what I want him, what he, what I think he wants
so we can be done on the conversation. I need to look at that, look at it that way. I'm the,
I'm a person, I want it right there and then so that I can see my path, you know, a lot clearer
where we're going. And we talked about, did we talk about this last week a bit as well,
about allowing your partner to have some processing time if they need that and having,
talking about sort of rules of engagement of when you have these discussions,
how you're going to go about that and what you both need to be able to actually sort of
get to the desired outcome. Yeah we did talk a bit about that last week but here's one of the,
so on the intellectual pathway, the intellectual pathway, so spiritual pathway is about receiving
love, the ability to receive and express divine love perfectly. The emotional pathway is about
the ability to communicate love effectively. The intellectual pathway is about being able to love
your spouse in the way that they want to be loved, you know, but not just, so I think that
on a surface level is the five love languages, right, that's easy. You can kind of read the five
love languages book, okay, they, quality, time, gifts, acts of service, you know, touch or
or what's the other one? Words of affirmation. So, okay, cool.
And I think in our Christian culture, it's kind of like,
okay, that's cool. You're like, now you've mastered
relationships, because you understand the five love
languages. But that's so shallow. It's that that's really
good information, right. But when it comes to the
intellectual pathway, the intellectual pathway is about
becoming the world's leading expert on your spouse. It's
about knowing everything. And a big part of that is, okay, how
do they process? Like, how do they? How do they do
communication? Like, how do they process information? Like,
what's the way that they like that they actually communicate?
Do they? Do they verbally process? Do they? So a lot of
verbally process stuff on the process of stuff?
Yeah. And he thinks my first answer is that it, when
actually, we need like an hour conversation for me to get to
the conclusion. Freaks out.
And I'm like, I'm an internal processor. So she'll be telling
me stuff. And I'll be like, Oh, my gosh, right. She's not
doesn't actually mean that that's not actually her answer.
She's actually just going through the motions of
processing the information with me. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh.
And I'm internally processing that and like building a 30
year plan of what she's saying. And potentially, I'm freaking
out in the past, I used to freak out a little bit because she's
sharing the stuff with me. And I'm like, Oh, that changes our
whole life. But she doesn't actually mean it. She's just
trying to work her way through. She's just like pulling all the
threads and processing the information and using me as a
sounding board. So that's part of the intellectual processes.
How does your partner communicate? Like this is the
intellectual pathway, it's being becoming the world's leading
expert on your partner, and it requires curiosity that you
actually really want to know, you're like, what's your
favorite color?
Doesn't have one.
I do. I don't really talk about it, though. But for some random
reason, I was just thinking about it the other day. And I
was like, Yep, no, it's true. It was kind of like an epiphany
moment for me. I was like, Yeah, no, no, it definitely is. My
favorite color is green. That's it. It is. It's kind of like
having this heart moment just to find myself about my favorite
color. There you go. Now you know. So it's like all those
little things, but it's okay. Well, what do you want on your
toast? Like, I'm gonna make Alana toast. I know what will make
her happy. I was how cool was this? I think I was having a
shave the other day or brushing my teeth. I was just, you know,
I was having I was just getting ready. I was in the bathroom
doing something getting ready for the day. And Alana brought
me an avocado toast. I was like, yeah, this is amazing. I was so
happy. I was like, Oh, yes. Right. I mean, it could have
been avocado toast, or she could have jumped me. But either way,
I would have felt extremely loved. Right. But the avocado
toast like, ah, straight to my heart. And probably would have
preferred it if she jumped me.
Let's be honest, you would always prefer it if I jumped
you. Yeah. Anything else?
Yeah, you usually. But
down. No, I haven't. I haven't. I'm not in the mood. That's
never actually happened. But the avocado toast was awesome. And
it's also great. So five love languages. That's great. If you
haven't, if you don't understand the five love languages, then
you want to make sure that you do. That's a great starting
point. But then you want to be extremely curious. And you want
to you have to understand as well that each season of your
life, there's going to be change, you know, like Lana's
hormones might change or, you know,
just, you know, having babies and small children acts of
service became quite valuable to me when it never was in the
past. So yeah, I think it can fluctuate.
So so that's another thing of the curiosity. It's like, I'm
here. I want to be your dream maker. I want to be the one
person on the planet that is more dedicated than anyone else
to help you living your dreams. But I can only do that if I've
got really, really, really good information. And I need detailed
information. So it puts this massive level of ownership on us
to get really curious about everything. And it's that level
of curiosity that you have about really engaging with your spouse
and wanting to know really what are they like? What do they
love? What do they want? That will really help you. And so
last night, again, Alana got a nice oil massage. No. And I know
that for her, what she likes when it's a night dedicated to
her, she likes to go straight to sleep after getting her massage
without me, you know, like
seducing her because I'm really good at that so I'm like I'll just let it be you know but so
so that's something that I know that she really likes and often you know when she's getting a
massage I'm like hey what uh what do you want is there anything you're like maybe sometimes
her feet are really sore she's oh foot massage would be the best or so it's just kind of like
okay hey what do you want there's always this level of curiosity asking wanting to know but
curiosity has to be met with vulnerability I can't tell you what I'm feeling if I ain't safe
yeah so this is where the where the emotional pathway comes in really really strong is you have
to create that safe atmosphere where there they feel safe enough to be totally vulnerable and give
you that good information which also requires courage because if things have been really
challenging at some point you just have to bite the bullet and step out even though you your feet
might get trot on yeah because with safety right sometimes you feel unsafe but the reality is that
the situation isn't safe you're just really insecure right now isn't unsafe hang on what
am i the situation the situation isn't unsafe sorry yeah the situation might not be unsafe
but you perceive it as unsafe right or a person might not be unsafe but you perceive them as unsafe
but the person's not the issue it's your insecurity that's the the real issue
and I think that sometimes we have this big problem with Christians as well as Christians
use this language right but we use it to actually punish people and we use it in a dysfunctional
way where we're like oh yeah that person's really unsafe so I just had to put up a boundary and
block them out of my life forever when really it's actually not the other person that was the issue
you are actually you know we have just come to this place where we feel really insecure or really
scared about something so that's why what Alana's talking about is courage like courage is always
necessary in relationships that you have to have massive courage all the time and I do think often
we're bringing in our previous experiences where those feelings may have been valid and we're
bringing them into our marriage relationships where we're putting them on the other person
not always sometimes the other person has created an unsafe environment in the past but we're pretty
good at carrying stuff from previous life into our marriage as well all right who's got a good
story for us of a spouse who has been really curious they were like they've really like
leaned in wanted to really know your heart and you've met it with vulnerability and it's been
this beautiful space where there's been curiosity and vulnerability and the end result was that you
get really awesome loving who's got a good story for us on that
curiosity and vulnerability meeting in a way that your need gets really really well taken care of
you
jesus help us no one has a marriage where they're getting what they want
i'll go oh you got cool praise him praise him
um i'll talk about my spouse um i um i think um well my wife's amazing and so um when i have
when i get into this moment just speaking about curiosity i think uh what curiosity does is
actually opened up my heart to be understood um and open my heart for me to actually see what's
actually going on in my heart as well so her being curious should often just ask questions and um and
her being a counselor has been a benefit to our marriage like she'll ask the right questions it
just opens me up um and and then um as i'm talking i begin to i begin to realize that
what i'm saying aren't actually true about who i am in god and then it just and then it just
diminishes that lie all because he just actually just asked a question and so um and i found that
like um a lot of our a lot of what would have what many other or many couples would have turned
into an argument was actually stopped because she just was just curious she just asked the question
and and um i think it it it has um stopped and completely cut out any negative or false assumptions
um because you just you just don't know so you can never assume so um and it's created a lot of um
um vulnerability from me and and humility on her side and then vice versa as well
and because she does that for me it's opened me up to then do
for her as well because I know I can see how it's done. Instead of her assuming and just pointing
fingers, why you should do this, why you should do this, well actually how are you feeling and
how does that make you feel? And as a man who necessarily isn't allowed to talk about manly
feelings in this world, it opens my heart up. I'll share actual time. So do you remember that
trip we took to Auckland after we had baby? So after we had baby, everything changes and I think
he was coming up to four months old and we had really not had a lot of time with each other.
My body was still healing so sex was kind of not really happening great and I was really struggling
and before we left I was journaling and talking to God and I was like oh man like I just don't
know what to do. I'm really angry at him for this and this and this and this like and I just felt
like the Holy Spirit said like just find a time to ask him what's going on for him and so when we
got in the car to go to Auckland, the baby fell asleep and we had like two hours before we had
to like stop and it was like the most precious two hours we have had. Two hours of
intimacy guys. It was so amazing and like I got to ask him and like he told me like all the things
he'd been thinking that I had no idea about and I'd been like frustrated about all this stuff but
it wasn't really the issue at all. It was just like just that we hadn't had time to connect and
talk and like be with each other like we had been before we had kids. I kid and that was just
that was the coolest one. I feel like the Holy Spirit was like in the car. Yeah I think curiosity
really allows us to be unified. Keeps us unified other than just being separated because of
assumptions and negative thoughts and stuff like that. And sometimes I just tell him this is the
question I want you to ask me right now. That is brilliant. So I mean I think right it's such a
oh that's such a nice concept right of having you know being dream makers for each other. It sounds
so nice right? Being yeah that's the divine plan for us to you know be the number one person that's
you know devoted to serving you or in the whole world. Yeah like nice thoughts right? But if we
aren't balancing or mastering the spiritual pathway and the emotional pathway and the intellectual
pathway things can get really really far from that really quickly. So love hearing what you
guys are sharing there. Beautiful stories. Our best chats have often been in the car as well
because I think because you're stuck together and it's kind of helpful that you're not looking at
each other. That you're kind of a little bit distracted with what's going on around you
and I think that's definitely when our best heart-to-hearts have been too. Especially if
you've got like eight hours of driving ahead of you. You get there eventually to talk about
the real stuff. And the kids are asleep in the back. Yeah. So let's jump into Anthony and Sonia.
Let's jump into your relationship for a little bit. We said at the start we'd come back to you
guys. So you're experiencing a bit of chaos, a bit of tension. You've had a little bit of
yeah now we'll just check in with you as well. I see you're unmuting so this might be a positive
sign. But just checking in that you feel safe enough to chat about your relationship and
checking in if you're happy just for us to do a little bit of a Dr Phil with you guys.
It's okay. It's okay. It's okay for you guys? Yeah. Yeah. All right well if you feel unsafe
remember like the whole dynamic. This doesn't work if people don't feel safe because we just
start lying to each other or checking out you know or not giving accurate information. So
a bunch of us are total strangers for you guys. So if you don't feel safe then
that's no worries at all. Just like be like oh no I'm kind of done on that question for now.
Or ultimately there's a little red button you know on your screen which says end and you can
just self-eject from the conversation really easily. You can just blame it on the internet
or something right. Oh yeah I've got no idea what happened to the connection.
So if you feel safe let's chat. If you're like oh no that's like not good for me then just chill
out and you know you can just say I'm done. I see Del's jumped in with us as well. That's what your
Zoom name says Del. So I hope that's your name. Welcome. Good to have you with us. So Sonia and
Anthony why don't you just give us a little bit of a picture.
um of weirdies that have had you guys been separated for a while um we were separated at
one point um it happened around um when things turned to custard virtually turned to custard
because um when i was suffering depression anthony actually suffers from depression as
well but i suffered with it i didn't realize i was suffering from um a touch of um postnatal
postnatal depression i was hanging on to it and i didn't realize i was going through it
and i was struggling with my kids and not knowing that they have global development
delay it was not easy either because it was hard dealing with kids in that situation um but however
i stood strong but with situation with their relationship i found it hard to open up to
anthony and and i think vice versa because i was withdrawing and he was withdrawing so it was like a
rollercoaster
how long ago were you separated i was about five years ago about five years ago um it was only
through only through doing um um cleansing streams because we went through cleansing streams um
to well separately and together and we dealt with a lot of stuff and um not long after that the holy
spirit told us there was no excuses we had to get back together it was pretty much it was um it was
really amazing how that happened but it was letting go of all the stuff that was causing all the um
havoc within that relationship and um to me um i'll be honest spiritual adultery and um
adulterous behavior cause and stuff was a causal part of it and and um but he forgave me and we
just was lead just to walk over forgave and just walk over a threshold and just leave that behind
us which which we did but so you had an affair kind of like that yeah yeah and when we were
separated when i was when you were separated kind of like that i just i need like good information
to be able to give you good information so yeah yeah no that yeah we had that and plus uh yeah
in spiritual adultery we're talking to some men on the line which type of that type of stuff which
is similar type of stuff so so just so that so that we're clear and i want to be safe about it
but i need like i can't really give you good information if i've just got like half understanding
so you did have an affair when you were separated or you yes yes i did yeah okay and did that go
how long were you guys separated um we were separate well when i went into woman's refuge
because things turned to catholic and i ended up under woman's refuge because of my heart
yeah anthony do you want to explain about that oh yeah um i had a kind of um thing going with um
anxiety and anger so we go anxiety um anger
anxiety control the need to control situations
and then the realization that i couldn't and then i get angry and then from there it got
sort of worse okay so you were you in woman's refuge because of violence yeah pretty much yeah
because he was attacking the kids with noise because he couldn't handle noise and
i have um high functioning autism which is like it's got pros and cons to it but i mean i was
diagnosed in my 50s which is quite ridiculous but i kind of i'm still working through the anger of
that that very fact that i've had to live a life of dysfunction social maladjustment and emotional
deprivation and of course sonia and i we process information vastly differently i think and so it's
like really it's a matter of intervention and um some of the things that have happened have been
good and some of them haven't been really satisfactory at all and so we're left with
the kind of frustration and remnants of our past and and things and um one of the things i've i've
really given up is shame even if i have to um stomp up and down and on my own and and say this
is not me this is not me this is not the true me only god knows the true me what people say about
me is it's not the full picture i only see pieces bits and pieces god sees everything
and so i stand on the word of god as my righteousness
and, sorry about the outbursts, you know, all my life I feel I have not been listened to and so I
haven't spoken or even tried to figure out what communication is or what a relationship is or
who I am in this world. So I feel like from a young age I have been kind of repressed, suppressed,
something like that. I'm sort of struggling for words but it's kind of like it's affected my
faith life but then it's a three-chord, it's a, what do they call it, a three-chord? A three-strand
chord. A three-strand chord, yes. And God, without God we can't do any of this stuff, we can't work
through any of this stuff effectively, I don't think. I'll leave it there. Okay, cool, that's
cool. All right, so you guys have had a bit of a journey, your anger drove her away and she's
away, she has an affair, you both start addressing some of your mess, you come back together and
everything is perfect and you live happily ever after. We had our children removed from
Oranga Tamariki. Stop, stop, stop, I can't hear you, slow down. Our children were removed from Oranga Tamariki,
well that was six back then, it was nine years ago. And within this we've had to deal with, well
basically we had to deal with that, only seeing our kids four hours a month and that was a toll
on that relationship. But that wasn't easy to deal with. No, that sounds insanely difficult. But despite
everything we just held it together and we never gave up seeing our kids and that's been addressed
in the court and being told because of the way my husband's wired and how to let go of that
because that's why we can't have our kids back together because he's got a spurges, I've got a
slight form of challenging impairment type of thing. But despite everything I've overcome a lot
of that stuff through the Lord, the strength, but it's the world's way of looking at things, it's not
exactly easy to deal with but we've had to push through it. And I keep getting from the Lord that
we just have to walk in unity and just move past this and make a stronger relationship between
the two of us. So no, it's a roller coaster. And then I was starting to get anger and detentment
because I was hearing all this stuff. And then I just had to let it go and realise and wait a minute
because I'm meant to be praying for my husband, building each other up, not tearing them down
because I hear it. To build one another up is the key and not to tear one another up and we're
supposed to be iron sharpens iron type of thing together and which isn't easy when you hear that
stuff. But it's a point of encouraging him to well, the Lord knows through me that he needs
to rise up and I need to be more proactive about praying for each other when we hear something
against one another. And especially in a situation of court and the court session, we were facing a
judge what our kids are in care. But I understood it because it's important to keeping our kids safe
while we're dealing with and going through stuff. Okay, so question for you. We've got a bit of
context now. But so where are you guys at right now in terms of your sense of connection and
intimacy and how happy you are with your relationship right now? So like, you might
think you might be in both different places. And that's okay. And this might be oversimplified. But
let me just chuck this out there anyway, on a one to 10 scale of how happy you are with your
relationship right now. I just like to hear from you guys. How happy are you with the level of
intimacy in your marriage right now? So each of you can come up with a different number. It's
fine. 10 is the absolute best. One's the absolute worst. Where do you feel like you're at in your
level of intimacy in your marriage right now?
I can't feel like quite a lot of the time I made it four. But sometimes, oh, the other day.
night we had a wonderful romantic evening and it was about a nine, yeah, and then so
that average is nine and four is thirteen minus two is four, five, six average. It goes
from four to nine. Okay that's great. Is that right? Yeah, well it's probably better for
you than it is for me. So that's good for you. So you're about a six. How about yourself
Sonia? Where would you say you feel like your relationship is at? I think about a five to
be honest because at one stage I felt faith because of stuff, anger still coming out and
I had to deal with to get over the anger and stuff. And yeah, five is just letting go and
just relaxing with one another at the moment. Yeah. Okay. All right. So here's my kind of
little, I guess here's my response. Here's my responses. I think that all of the norms
in our culture and everything that you've experienced as a normal in your culture, the
blueprints that you will have seen in your own family, your image of what you thought
marriage is going to be like, what it's supposed to be like. You guys have set up, I would
suggest in a sense that culturally you guys have been set up to fail really badly. That's
my perspective is I'm not surprised that with the places that you came from, the information
that you had, the normal that you saw, and when you came together with those worlds that
you had the experience that you had, right? It's because it's so common and it's so common
that people don't get equipped to have extreme intimacy. Like they, people don't get trained
from the time they're little, how to have the most amazing marriage possible. And so
people see a blueprint of dysfunction and think that's all there is, or, you know, like
they have different issues and never in their whole lifetime do those issues get addressed
in a healthy way that's actually going to produce transformation, set them up for a
phenomenal marriage, right? So that's my thought, right? Is that there's so much going on in
your marriage right now, which is why you're peaking out at a five or a six. And there's
so much going on there for you in terms of what the challenges are that there's no simple
like, oh yeah, like real, like here's an easy solution. So I do really recommend that you
read, like read the book, like this is a real challenge. You read the book. And if you really
feel courageous, do the workbook together. Like if you really want to fight for your
marriage, I'd encourage you to do that workbook together. If you have some value for your
marriage, and you want to set it up for success, do that workbook, I dare you. But here's my
like, here's my, I guess my response to you is that your road forward, if you want to
change things, the only way you're going to be able to do that is by embracing a ridiculous
amount of hard things. Right, you're going to have to embrace doing hard things every
day, you're going to have to be really intentional about choosing your heart. Do you want the
hardship of marriage only ever being, you know, like a five or a six, and never experiencing
the level of intimacy that you want? Or do you want to take on the hard things of the
challenges right now that are actually going to resolve the deep core issues that have
been built into you over your whole lives that are producing the challenges that you're
facing now. So you're going to have to, that's really where you're going to be have to be
at is to choose, okay, because it's not like sometimes a relationship, it's like, okay,
you've just got like one thing here for you guys, you've got a storm. And you've already
experienced the storm that separated you, you've experienced the storm that's produced
your adultery, but then you've also produced your experience coming back together, you've
experienced some like nine out of 10 moments, you love each other, there's this beauty there.
But to really create the type of marriage that God has for you, you guys are going to
have to overcome so many giants that have set you up for failure your whole life, like all
these things that have been like, yeah, we're going to destroy you this way, we're going to
destroy you this way, we're going to destroy you this way. The cool thing is that you can
actually overcome them. But the reality is that it is not going to be easy.
And I think one thing that was helpful for us at times was outside help. I'm assuming
that you've probably got outside help.
out whether that's counsellors or doctors or social workers or whatever but using those
people as well to help you journey through is really important yeah it's not always easy
to find good help either you know like because if you go to your local council or your local
this person that person sometimes they're more harm than good so networking for um for
external help uh agencies like parent courses and for my um asd um some help for managing
sensory issues and emotional developing emotional intelligence yeah and i think for you guys
that's a really important part of this as well um as having that external help personally
as well as together and that and that for us as well was like a bullet that i had to
bite um in the sense of i realized finally oh my gosh i didn't realize i'd been the one
that had been causing all the issues in our marriage but i realized i had that finally
i had that realization like oh man i'm actually the one that's causing all this chaos and
i'm gonna have to choose if i want to keep living with all this chaos or if i want to
do a whole lot of hard things that will result in redesigning our marriage into something that
we really really want so um i guess that there's so much going on for you guys that really the
key and i think that's actually the key for most relationships in the book we just really cover
this is that the one of the biggest keys to a marriage thriving is embracing a lifestyle of
doing hard things like for example a hard thing's not necessarily always that hard but it's like
making a choice to do it even if you're like ah like last night i might just sleep in today
yeah well last night i was like i didn't want to give alana a message right you should have seen
i didn't want it like there's just this little part of me that's like oh now i could just watch
some more tv you know we could we just we're just chilling we'll just keep on chilling and
not do that but then i was like actually i need to just i need to do the hard thing it's actually
not going to be that difficult but i just needed to change my mindset deal with my own laziness
and go actually no i'm really going to look after my wife here like this is something that
uh this is a way that i can look after her and so it's just like that's a simple thing
but it's just making those decisions all the time of like there's a simple way where i can really
love on my wife and i can actually choose to it might not be the biggest deal if i don't do it
right but if i keep choosing those little outs then i'm going to reap the reward of that but if
i keep choosing the little ways of like okay i know this is going to really bless it um i know
this is going to be uh there's some something going to be really helpful or i know actually
if i deal with this issue in myself that's going to produce a real big amount of fruit in my
relationship so yeah i hope that's um helpful for you guys i'm really really proud of you for
sharing where you're at it's a massive journey um and so many others are you know dealing with
similar things to you guys so i think you know if we had more time we could go deeper into some of
the some of the you know kind of the specifics but i don't think we'll try and get all the specifics
for today um but really really appreciate your vulnerability and your sharing and loving seeing
what you are doing already that's producing some really significant progress in your journey so
far so we're really excited for you thank you benji thank you welcome guys welcome welcome
um let's uh let's hassle cat here because um she's so much fun all right
okay tell us one of the ways that you are curious with your husband about figuring out what he
really wants good question it was like wow trying to plow away on that um
i know that he is someone who needs time
like probably that whole car situation is very common to me actually i have to say where
like we don't get a lot of time to at all talk like this life is so full um
that that i know if i throw out one question and just say nothing it will be i get an hour
of conversation from him but to actually have time is probably the main issue there but i know that
but i know that um yeah it's really good just to ask him one thing and just leave it
and that will be unraveling a whole you know a whole lot of his thoughts on things
and not to fire too many questions. I think it gets him like a little bit
because I can be a bit quite actively talking and I think it gets him a bit
overwhelmed sometimes or he thinks I vary when I don't vary but I'm just
curious too curious maybe and I guess just knowing that that's how he ticks
and just appreciating that I would have heaps more I'm my curiosity is quite
so but I have to watch that as well I think it can be negative as well in that
sense for us but he's really good at knowing what to share and when to share
with me because he protects me something stressed me when he tells me and I'm
like maybe I don't want to know maybe you just keep that to yourself right now
but it's been over the years learning that I guess really yeah what do you
feel like in your marriage that he knows what you want when you want it and how
you like it pretty pretty good pretty good
that's probably the odd time where he would like me to jump him and I don't
want to okay I'm sleeping but like it's just like I think I guess we're not
aware of where one another is it I mean because we're good friends too really I
think that's really helpful and I think he's better at it than I am to be honest
I think he's kinder to me than I'm to him like I can pull out the method
manipulation at times when I push him yeah yeah what would be one of the ways
that you most commonly manipulate in your marriage I think I do like when I
when something's annoys me then I do get quiet yeah and I do and you do need a
timeout kind of moment I think and that's something I'm annoyed about
myself at times I'm like oh man I need to overcome this is stupid it's like a
tantrum you know throwing like a tantrum but yeah I'm still human sorry so the
tantrum that's a really interesting concept right because when we're talking
about how two powerful people right if you've got a relationship and this is
like a really interesting part of our journey right because we're on a journey
towards becoming two powerful people and a question for you is do do powerful
people have tantrums
definitely they have tantrums oh yeah I think here's my here's my thought is
that powerful people maybe it looks maybe there's a little bit there around
the definition of what a tantrum is right it's because sometimes a tantrum
can be used to punish a person right so it depends if you're using a tantrum as
a way of punishing a person because if we're using a tantrum as a way of
punishing a person then that is not how a powerful person behaves that's what I
used to do to a lot of all the time so I would sulk and I would just see any noise
coming out it's silent but it's really obviously an unsafe negative attitude
creating a negative atmosphere which put her into an amygdala hijack and so
when I did kind of finally say something to her out of my out of my little realm
of sulking she would be like I don't know and I'm like trigger to a whole
nother level but so the question would be is do you use that tank it's like
because there's one dynamic of I can just I'm processing a real like how I
really feel I just need a bit of time just a process that I feel her or I feel
I've got these feelings that I'm dealing with right now so it's one thing to be
dealing with our feelings and just need some time to deal with ourselves and
kind of you know have a time out and get ourselves together that's one thing you
can do that in a healthy way but the moment that it becomes about the way
that I used to use it which is actually to punish and control and really
punishment is actually really about trying to trying to find a way to
manipulate and control the person that's what I was ultimately what I wished was
Alana would just do what
I wanted her to do.
Yeah.
Well, how do you feel like that tantrums used or the purpose or what's going on?
I think for me, I'm just trying to, you know, lock it down into something.
I think it is a little bit like, it's a build up often of a lack of time spent.
And then it's like, you know, and then it can, then I have to watch myself talk.
You know, it's moments like, oh, you never, you know, they're kind of like, oh, he's never
doing this.
And I'm like, Hey, but, um, same time though.
I think that that builds off lack of time to communicate and actually sitting down before
it overboils, isn't it?
And, um, I, I mean, he's not someone who can be manipulated full stop, so I might be trying,
but he's probably powerful in that sense that he sees through it as well.
So in a way I'm learning on that and I know actually it's kind of, if I feel stink, then
I have to rather, you know, I get, I just struggle with the emotion of it, I think,
because I'm so fast reared up.
I think that's more trying to not get it to a point of just being fiery, I guess.
I think it's a bit of a weakness I have for sure.
Okay.
Um, now here's a, here's a question for you.
Is there any way that you guys could put some other boundaries in place to protect your
time together?
Um, that's definitely a point of homework.
I'll put this out there because this is the, there's so much tension in life, right?
As an adult.
I saw this interesting picture the other day, it had all of these things that were really,
really major priorities.
It was a height, like, you know, there's like eight or nine of these things that were really
important.
And then in the middle of the circle, it said, the title was what life is like as an adult.
And then there's like all these major priorities, about eight or nine of them.
And then the middle, it said, pick three.
And what your brain starts doing is just like bouncing from one to the next, like, Oh my
gosh, which three?
Oh my gosh.
Oh my God.
And it's like, always a compromise, always a juggle, always a balance of trying to like,
how do I balance all of these things?
But one of the, one of the things that is a moment of extreme ownership for us in that
process is we often say, I don't have time for this because we're in this
maze, this juggle, this race of trying to balance everything.
But actually, if you're a person who really takes extreme ownership rather than a person
who's justifying, then you don't use the language, you never use the language, I'm too
busy. You only use the language of that hasn't, that's not a priority for me at this
time.
That's good.
So I'm just wondering, is there a way that you could more effectively prioritize time
together?
Yeah, yeah.
I think just times like we've actually, I mean, it's just slack lately, I think, like
we've done pretty well at going for walks quite regularly, actually, and often early
in the morning, so just early up and just get stuff done early.
And it's just, I think the last four months probably has been less and less because of
like, we've got our quiet times, we do that, and then, but it sort of started, I don't
know, you know how it's something to start slipping.
It's not like, OK, we're not going for walks anymore.
It's not like that. It's just like, and suddenly you're like, oh, we haven't gone for walks
for four months. That's weird.
Or we go for a walk and then because we haven't, then it's like, oh, we haven't gone for
a walk. And then it all blows up because suddenly we have time.
I'm sure you know about that.
You know, it's like then it gets real deep and heavy and quick as well when you haven't
actually had a while and then you suddenly it's all on.
It's like the kids home from holiday.
It's all on first day.
It's like, wah!
But yeah, so no, it's definitely just reminded me.
And I think it's just something we come back to it.
Like, I don't think it's impossible for us.
It's just prioritizing again.
Yeah, probably.
It's that so often it's like Solomon and Solomon's songs that says, catch for me the
little foxes.
Yes, like those softener in a relationship.
It's not the big things that blow up a relationship.
It's just like all these little things like, you know, like last night, for example, I
could have made that decision like, oh, let me justify why we're not going to do a
massage.
And it actually probably wouldn't, I wouldn't have even noticed, to be honest.
Yeah, but at the same time, she does notice that...
If it's been six months.
Yeah, in my mind, I try and I'm like, I want to try and give her something nice like that once a week.
And I'm like, this is the, you know, like the week has been busy.
This is the last chance to make it happen.
I'm like, I want to do that.
And so in a sense, it's just like the little foxes.
I'm like, I've got to prioritize this right now.
We're not going to get another chance this week.
It has to happen right now.
And I think that's so often, it's not the big things that blow up a relationship,
but it's the compounding little things that become the big things.
So, yeah.
And I mean, I have to say one thing that my mom taught me, which I thought was really good,
is the one thing she's highly said, don't ever manipulate with sexuality.
Because that's the killer for your marriage.
She's like...
I've really tried to do that, but...
I think it was, I mean, as a woman...
No, I'm being silly.
I'm being silly.
Just so you know, I was being silly there because sex was the last thing Lata wanted.
So my ability to manipulate with sex, I would have loved that if I could have...
Yeah, but, you know...
I just, like, there's certain things where I think because that is one of the core things
of marriage as a foundation, which is not anything we do with other people usually,
is if you don't protect that or be as a woman...
Like, to not say, no, not tonight because I don't...
You've done this today.
Like, that kind of thing.
And sometimes when I'm like, actually, that's starting...
But, of course, in a safe thing, I know that there's points to it, but...
Like, that I don't get down that track that I use it to say no,
just because something happened that day that I just want to make him feel stink,
is to not use there.
And I think that's actually something I took on board from my mom as a...
Like, be a good wife, you know, don't be like that.
And it was quite a...
Something that just, you know, sticks there a little bit.
And I don't...
Yeah, it's really something I think is quite healthy in our relationship, actually, to just...
Also, that's also love sometimes where, oh, maybe I don't feel like it,
but, hey, actually, it's good for him to do.
Like, let's love that way as well.
Yeah.
Cool.
Okay, everyone, I've got one last question for everyone before we wrap up.
Okay, so the...
I definitely want to encourage everyone with the workbooks, okay?
There's singles workbooks and there is couples workbooks.
But the intellectual pathway, which was the real focus of today,
is about good information, right?
There's no one else that is in the privileged position
that we are when we're married to someone.
There's no one else who's in that privileged position
where they actually get to be the world expert on their spouse.
So I want to...
But to do that, you need good information, right?
And a big part of that's all about this dynamic of being dream makers.
So good information.
Here's what I'd like to...
If you feel courageous enough right now,
you can unmute and you can say one thing that you...
If you're not married, you can just say,
hypothetically, if you were married,
one thing you would want your spouse to know that you wanted.
If you are married, it's one thing that you wish they knew you wanted.
Does that make sense?
So if you're married already, it's like,
oh, I wish they knew that I wanted this.
And Janice, we'll start with you.
If you're not married, it's in the future,
one thing I really want my future spouse to know that I want.
And it can be anything.
So Janice, we'll start with you.
I want, if God has somebody for me in the future,
I would like them to support me in my dreams and goals
as a songwriter and a performer and a writer
with writing my books and stuff like that
to really help me and keep me, help me on track.
Fantastic.
Veronica, Veronica, there you are.
I can see you getting all excited about getting married again.
Like, woo-hoo!
No, I was just saying to my friend,
I've spent 25 years trying not to think like that.
25 years trying to think.
Not to think like that.
About getting married.
Yeah, well, yeah, I've just never, yeah, never thought it.
Never wanted to still feel that.
way but I've never yeah I've never thought about what I would like if I was
you married again what I would like them to do for me I just you're on the spot
now so make something up make something up you're asking me to change my mindset
for 25 years you know what I don't know if it fits but faithfulness yeah and
then I'm not just talking about and you know to each other but faithful just
faithful faithful faithful to me because I'm a very faithful person so yeah yeah
that's that's me now I've forgotten your name but I'm pretty sure you're in
Canada got the red hat glasses I'm trying to
maybe name but you it just is iPhone I know it's not oh yeah no yeah my other
name no yeah I got to change that I am thanks reminded me um yeah I'm David in
Phoenix Arizona yeah hey Benji nice to meet your wife thank you um this thing
really great and I'll just share this that the timing of catching the email
that this was going on right now I was like I was at the I was at the cross
road of kind of going one way or going another way I'm just I'll kind of leave
it at that but um you know I chose a hard thing and I got on here and that
was gonna be a really redemptive thing for me personally and for my marriage
but I'll to answer the question um you know I didn't realize until Janice
answered her question with her answer and I'm gonna just say everything she
said if you remember what she said as far as the music and writing that's for
me too I didn't realize it until she said that I didn't realize how important
that was now I was gonna answer that I actually do like to be touched and you
know I would like to have you know her to feel comfortable touching me but at
the same time I'm not really doing that as much with my wife so it's like well
if I'm not doing it how does she know to do it and so that's a kind of another
thing but I realized when Janice shared that that that really was that was my
answer so I'm gonna just reiterate what she said and say that's that's it for me
beautiful beautiful Mamiya appreciate that and massive love to you
all right Elise I think you unmuted me and then I unmuted myself I am I'm
trying to apply all this to my relationship with the Lord because I
have never dated nor have I married and I'm 51 so I like to listen to you all
and hear about your relationships because I grew up kind of fatherless
where my dad left when I was 12 and a half but he had left three times prior
to that and so I didn't I grew up with a very a war zone inside the house my dad
was bipolar and violent and so you know to answer that question what do I want
someone to know about me I have lived I've moved I think 13 times in the last
12 years and I've lived with a lot of people and some of them have been very
dominant and controlling and I have been the mouse that just did what I was told
and I learned to bite my tongue and not say anything because I was afraid I'd
make them angry but currently I'm living with my sister Jessica who's not very
happy that I'm here and yesterday she was yelling at me about not wearing
glasses and I think that if I ever married I would like my husband to
accept some of the convictions and the decisions that I've had for a very long
time and not badger me about them so that's what I would like. There you go
okay well thank you very much for sharing. Now Del are you there? We see
your name there. Feel free to unmute and jump on chat with us if you're there.
Yes I am but I'm still in my pajamas. Sorry. Oh that's right you don't have to
put your video on. I'm in my pajamas too. I've got clothes on top as well.
Yeah so I've been married twice once to a minister of religion and again to an
Okorozi man. My second marriage has just dissolved in domestic violence and I'm
chatting to a man at the moment online because of lockdowns here but yeah I
I don't know.
just have this desire to grow and learn and so I've joined your group and yes I know that I'm
not good out of marriage because I'm a very affectionate person. So you know hopefully
I will remarry and honour God and be what he wants me to be in a marriage and to the community.
I currently live alone in a very remote area so online stuff has been very important to me for
my learning and growth and contact with other people. I'm a nurse and I do shift work so
between my shift work and everything else I don't really get a lot of contact with people except at
work at the moment. So it is hard but I had a court session two days ago and my property
settlement is going through and I can get on with my life which is a blessing to me and away from
oppression and violence so I'm really happy about that. Great, great and if you get married in the
future what's one thing you would like your husband to know about you? So I put it up on
the chat I didn't know whether you're looking at things like that but yeah that I'd want my spouse
to know that I want affection and time. Beautiful. So yeah and I'm so thankful for everything
everybody's sharing and I know how hard it is to be vulnerable but I am a very open and vulnerable
person and I really would love to you know pray for everybody for what they've
shared and I'm thankful for what I learned from what you share. Great, so what does affection
look like for you? What type of affection do you want? Well it's you know it's the normal hugging, kissing,
touching you know when you walk past somebody but it but then you know like I'm learning that
I'm a very sensual person and I didn't realize that till now being a you know empty nester and
and being on my own and being able to think about who I am and so you know I'm learning that
there's that side of me too and so I know that I can't not remain that I would not be successful
remaining single because I'm affection has always been used against me to become sexual
and I was sexually assaulted as a child which put me into a cycle of behavior and drew me to
my first husband who actually assaulted our children and so I'm really aware that I have that
problem I suppose you could say and that you know I have to be careful in relationships and
but I'm very open and I you know I talk about my past and I share with people what God's teaching
me and how much he has brought me forward in my life and that you know I quite often see
the characteristics that I've gone through that I can see in people you know that are red flags
or that I can see them struggling with issues that I've had yeah so I
yeah it's a life's life's huge isn't it there's so much chaos in the world but my desire is to
honor God and honor whoever I go into a relationship with and be the best at that
that I can be and to grow in God with that because you know to me I've never had you know
even though I was married to a minister of religion he never shared his faith with me or
prayed with me or did that so I'm really conscious that I want to marry a man that's going to be
a godly man and share all that with me beautiful well thank you very much for sharing that that's
amazing really appreciate it um thank you now next up we'll have um Lavinia but Veronica
how about your friends that are sitting there just cheekily over there okay did you hear Benji
yeah what do you guys want in marriage what do you want to do last year
hey um I guess I just so I me and my husband we got married in December last year
and we've been together 14 years and um
the first probably 10 years of our relationship was horrible. But I just believe that God's
really done a lot in our marriage. And moving forward, just to answer the question, I guess
one thing that I would like in our marriage is just to appreciate one another. Like I guess in
the 14 years we've been together, we've never actually taken some time out to get to know
one another. And we went on our first date just a couple of months ago and we realised so many
gaps in our relationship and our marriage now that we're now working towards. So one would be
communication, appreciation and definitely intimacy like everyone else has been talking about.
Cool, that's exciting. I really want to encourage you, get a hold of that book,
jump into it. And it's a glorious rollercoaster there. But I think you'll really love what you
find. Yeah, thank you. I've really enjoyed listening in as well. Great stuff. That's
great to hear. Now there's one more buddy there, Veronica? Yeah, that's Vanessa.
Vanessa, you don't get to escape. We're tracking you down. I was hoping I could.
Really? Vanessa, tell us about your love life.
It's too good. You don't want to really hear about it really. No, I'm actually separated.
I've been separated for probably two years. My husband lives downstairs and I live upstairs.
Yeah, God has a sense of humour I reckon. It's not my sense of humour. In fact, it has been
the hardest thing ever. But it's been the most amazing thing ever. So we've just been
building our friendship, I guess. So for me, it would be understanding and appreciation as well.
And to be able to understand and not get frustrated. I think we were kind of like
how you were talking about the two powers. Power struggle relationship.
Big time. I want to win. So did he. And we would never compromise.
Cool. Hey, well, thanks for that. We're going to jump to Lavinia. And then it's going to be
Tonja and Anthony. And I think we did yours already, Cat, didn't we? Or do we need to circle back to you?
We haven't done you yet. We're going to circle back to Cat for the landing. So Lavinia?
Yeah. OK, for me, it's vulnerability. I would love my husband to
chill out and learn to trust me. To say what's actually on his mind. But he doesn't.
Oh no, that's awesome. That's awesome. I love hearing that.
OK. Yeah, it's vulnerability. Just to be able to trust me because I'm at a stage in my life now
I'll use this expression, Benji. I used to think that I was holier than thou. And I think that put
my husband off from the very beginning because he was non-Christian when I married him. He was
raised in the Catholic Church and some horrific stuff happened whilst he was experiencing that
side in his life. So here, you know, we come together and I've been raised up as a Christian
from day one and I'm planting all the stuff on him. You must, you must, you must, you must,
you must. And it just drew us further apart. But we remained in our marriage because
there was love. We just could not communicate that to a safe place. Then all these children
came along. We had seven children. We lost one and that brought a lot of trauma on the marriage.
And with all this going on, my husband was a very sporty man. He almost made the Kiwi team.
So you can imagine the socialising and all that playing, you know, having an effect on our marriage
and then the mistrust and what's he doing out there.
that sort of stuff. But now we've sort of grown through that, forgiven each other. My husband's
now a full-blown Christian. We've repented with all that stuff, you know, so we feel a lot freer
now. But the vulnerability is what I'm experiencing at the moment is that he, I feel that he doesn't
trust me enough to tell me exactly what's going on for him when there are struggles. And I would
love him to do that. Because I am a trusted person. I have a counselling background,
I was a domestic violence counsellor for many years. But I don't know everything.
But I would just love him to unwind and tell me some of those things so that we can share
and experience our indifferences and bring them together like what you were saying.
I think that's it.
Awesome. Thank you so much. Righto, Anthony?
Yes, I think...
Now, you guys have a funny situation, right? Because you're there together.
Yeah.
You've got to tell us one thing that you would like her to know about you.
I'd like Sonia to...
I'd like to have her to respect me that I am just wired the way I am. And I'm just a bit theatrical,
because I'm not atypical. I'm atypically atypical. And yeah, try and get your head around that.
Think about how hard it might be for Sonia. But together, we'll work it out, I think.
Lovely. And Sonia?
I think... Yeah, I get that. That's important, accepting that situation.
And I think it's like accepting that I like to open up, but I've got to learn to slow down.
Like I've been told by a lot of people that I talk too fast and I need to slow down to be heard.
What's the thing that you would like?
Well, I'd just appreciate it more in, I think, my work space more as I'm being successful.
Like I've never been successful before, like leading seniors. That's the first time I've
actually done any sort of leadership role and taking over. And I'd like to be able to
be celebrated for where I'm at. But yeah, and also I've got to, yeah, and accepting him from
his stuff. Like he's in the process of writing a book on poetry, poetry book, putting that together.
And with me, I come out in a new song and I come out with a new song. So I think that's
working together like that. So it's like we did that video encouraging people all over the world.
In fact, as far as Germany with some of our videos, because I've got a page called Encouraging
Life Song. So it came up when I did a page and like giving each other, encouraging each other,
our talents and et cetera. So, yeah. Awesome. Very cool. Right. We're going to
circle to Kat. I'm going to be back in one second. I'm going to go for a pee.
I've got the same idea. It drives me crazy.
You got to go. You got to go. Yeah. And he's got the bladder about the size of a pea.
Oh, man. Oh, plus he drinks all that water all day, drinking three liters of water.
Yes. That doesn't help the situation.
Alana, can I just, Alana, can I just ask a question now regarding,
because my friends are interested in the, the thinking raising royalty business. Is that?
The person to talk to is Benji.
Okay.
Because he deals with that stuff every day. Whereas I don't really.
All right. Thank you.
You could just send him a message.
Okay.
What's that?
Okay.
I realize that we've gone like an hour over time.
Too much time on these ones.
Yes. Sorry. Yeah. Cool. Actually, I was thinking something that I would love him to
know more, which I really appreciate it when he initiates a date,
but I feel I need to organize it every time.
I don't, and it's not that he doesn't want to do the date, but I would, or holidays.
Like, I always plan and do it all.
And I know he loves to go and do it as well,
but I find, I like that he doesn't fully understand
how much I would appreciate it, him initiating.
That's beautiful information, eh?
That's really good information.
That's something that you can just let him know.
Yeah.
Okay.
Actually, yes.
And I can communicate it.
It's not that hard, really.
Yeah, you can do it.
You can do it.
If you can even say, hey, I'm free on Thursday night,
take me out.
There's a voucher.
No, cool.
Awesome.
Okay, babe, what's something that you want in our house?
Something that I want.
I haven't thought about that.
A new house.
We're renting right now.
I know that this is something, but I know this.
We both want to get a bit of land.
Where we have moved to, there's, I think,
30 properties for sale in the whole area,
and none of them are really what we want.
They're not even close.
Yeah, so Benji's finally starting to feel that urgency,
but we've been really in limbo to a degree
for the last two and a half years,
and I'm ready to settle down.
Okay, but that's not new information.
That's not new information.
What do I want?
That's new information.
That's not new information.
Yeah, something new that you don't know about me
that I want.
You probably know that I like this,
but I'm just gonna give you good information
that I really, really like it,
and I would love more of this,
and she's done this a couple of times lately.
She's just busted into my office with a smoothie
and just given me this amazing smoothie,
and she did it not yesterday, the day before.
Oh, man, it was so good.
It was such an amazing smoothie,
so to me, that's a really something amazing.
I was gonna make one this morning,
but you had two plates of toast,
and I'm like, you're not gonna have space for a smoothie
after eight pieces of bread.
Okay, right, well, let me give you some good information
with all these people.
I will always have more room for a smoothie.
I've had seven pieces of toast like I did this morning,
including three pieces of avocado toast.
I will still have lots and lots and lots of room
for a smoothie.
It's like ice cream.
It goes in your mouth.
Whoo-hoo, smoothie!
Yeah, there you go.
There's some good information.
Never hold back on making me a smoothie.
So you're the only one now
that hasn't given some new information.
I don't know what new information I have to give you.
She's freaking out.
She doesn't feel safe.
No, it's not really that good.
Hey, welcome, Debra.
You're coming just right at the end of our chat.
We're about to wrap it up,
but it's lovely, always lovely to have you with us, Debra.
Oh, I know.
Oh, yes.
I would like you to start consistently finishing
working in the day at a regular time.
Yes, there we go.
Rather than at dinner.
Yeah, absolutely.
15 minutes after dinner.
Yeah, totally, because I am-
That's not new, but I'm refreshing your memory.
Yeah, refreshing your memory.
Because it's been a while since I've said that.
She hasn't had to say it too much,
but last night I worked too late.
Yes.
Yeah.
Definitely.
That's definitely an area for me,
for my obsession to get-
A new house.
My obsession to get things done.
The funny thing is, right,
is whenever she says,
I would like a new house, right?
I'm like, okay, right.
Well, I have to work my butt off to get what you want.
And then she's like,
I would also like you to get me a new house
while working less.
And as a man,
that's one of the most challenging spaces,
where you're like, you want a beautiful house
and you don't want me to go to work.
I get it perfectly.
But it's beautiful and I hear you.
And it's not that I don't have time,
it's that I don't prioritize.
So, right.
Well, love you guys very much.
Thank you.
And we should just get David to pray for us,
to wrap up and get that anointing flowing from Canada land.
Yeah.
Thank you, Lord.
We just, oh, thank you, Holy Spirit.
Yeshua, we just love you.
Thank you for bringing open hearts and open minds
and genuine feelings about the way you've created us
and the way you want us to understand
and communicate and love one another.
The reason that you created marriage,
the reason that you do everything is all about love,
because that's what you are.
The love has been felt here.
We thank you.
for allowing the love to be so free-flowing
for everybody on this call today.
We love you, we thank you,
and we praise you for all the love
that you bring into every facet
of everything we do every day.
It's all for you.
We love you.
Thank you.
Amen, amen.
Amen, beautiful.
Bless you guys.
And we'll catch you later.
It'll be same time next week in Veronica.
I'll touch base with you shortly.
Cool, cool.
See you guys, bye-bye.
Thanks everybody, bye-bye.