WEBVTT

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It's sort of indefinite at the moment,

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but we're thinking maybe another month.

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That's rough.

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Craziness.

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I don't think we know how good we've had it.

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I'll just say a little hello and welcome to everyone.

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And I'll just make sure that it's working in the tech,

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but feel free to keep chatting there.

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Oh, yes, it's working.

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And even has the right name on it.

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We use some streaming software,

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Sebastian and I,

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and sometimes it says that it's Sebastian going live,

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and it's kind of funny.

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I was live yesterday as Sebastian.

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How are you guys doing?

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Good.

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Good?

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What's happening?

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Just recovering from my workout here, Alana, eh?

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Yeah, so Alana,

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yeah, that's why we're a little bit late today,

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so that Alana could get a gym session.

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And so what do you do at the gym, Kat?

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I do a less meal class.

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It's a step class.

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Sweet.

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How's yours been going?

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Yeah, good.

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We're doing boxing.

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Ooh.

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Great prep for this conversation.

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Yeah, I need my skills.

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Yes, I've been doing some boxing as well,

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so we'll be a fair fight.

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I feel like, especially as a girl,

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you never get the opportunity

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to hit something as hard as you can.

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Oh, yes.

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And I know I never have,

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and so it's quite a good feeling

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to just hit something as hard as you can.

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Right, interesting.

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Yeah.

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Cool, fam.

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Well, hey, why don't we get,

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Raymond, why don't you pray for us as we jump in?

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So it's gonna be a fun session.

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This one, we are chatting about

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the sensual and the sexual pathways,

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so that'll be a bit of fun.

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So, Raymond, why don't you pray for us,

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and then we'll jump into it.

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Oh, thank you, Father God,

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for this wonderful time to just come and,

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yeah, just spend this time with Benji and Alana,

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and Lord, we really thank you

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that you designed relationships for

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not just our pleasure, but your pleasure,

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and for those people around us, too, Lord,

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that we can be loved in a more powerful way.

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And Lord, we just really thank you

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that you have a plan for each of us,

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and that we are not just knitted

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to our partner, but to all believers around us.

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And so we really thank you for that.

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Lord, we thank you for this time

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just to open our hearts and our ears,

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and help us be a little bit vulnerable

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if that's what we need to be.

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And, yeah, Holy Spirit, just work in us in Jesus' name.

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Amen.

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Very cool.

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Well, thanks for that, Raymond.

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This is gonna be dynamic.

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Dave, how are you doing?

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Good to have you jumping in.

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Hey.

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Hello, Luke.

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Good stuff.

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Good to see you.

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So I was just trying to think

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where we should start on this one.

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So this session is gonna be a bunch of fun.

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It is the,

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I was just, I actually just pulled up the wrong document.

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I was gonna,

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here we go.

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Oh yeah, I've got it.

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I'm just gonna just start actually with some quotes,

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because we're doing the sensual and the sexual pathways,

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but I thought it'd be interesting

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just to do a little bit of some sex stats to start with,

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because there's some interesting sex stats.

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Has anyone checked out that chapter in the book?

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Has anyone seen that?

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The sex chapter?

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Oh, you haven't.

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Okay, well, let me share some interesting sex statistics

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sex-tistics with you.

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I'm just scrolling through finding that point,

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but we're gonna talk about female orgasms for a moment,

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give you some statistics on that,

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and then also give you some statistics on porn,

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which are a little bit interesting.

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And then we'll just see what happens from there.

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We'll talk a little bit about the five love languages,

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and we'll just get a bit chatty, really.

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So, first set of statistics.

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Oh, that's right.

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It's right at the end.

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I was thinking we were right there, but it's not.

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it the fun thing is if you're reading this book it's the last chapter right so um if you want to

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just skip straight to the real juicy bit then you can just go right to the last to the end yeah skip

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right to the last last chapter um so oh and that chapter's kind of fun it starts off with our

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honeymoon i'll give you one little line from the book um about our honeymoon uh i'll read this

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from the honeymoon and then it might you might decide oh i might read that chapter um so it

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says we both married as virgins i'm the only guy that alana has ever kissed the most physical i'd

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ever been with was kissing a few girls neither of us had a porn issue when it came to masturbation

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as an 18 year old i felt like i was addicted then one day god challenged me to stop i had

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nothing against the idea i just didn't think it was possible my immediate reaction was actually

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god that's out of my hands but that wasn't entirely true god responded by releasing a

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grace on my life that set me free that very day just like that it wasn't an issue for me anymore

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that didn't mean i had no sex drive i did but by the grace of god i had more self-control than sex

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drive uh we'll leave it oh hang on when it came to our honeymoon we were complete sex rookies

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we had kept our boundaries all the way i hadn't been touching or looking alana's bum vagina or

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breast and she hadn't been touching or looking at my bum or penis everything was about to be

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a surprise i'm not usually very good at keeping surprises from alana even the day that we got

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engaged she said to her friends i'll show you my ring when i get back i don't even know how she

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knew i had the ring because i thought i was being so sneaky she wasn't even that surprised

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when a helicopter landed picked us up and dropped us at the top of a mountain where i proposed

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but i did manage to surprise her with our honeymoon remember we didn't have much money

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but we had a lot of faith i had booked two weeks at a five-star hotel on the gold coast in australia

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i had no money for it but god said do it then after i'd done it someone said they wanted to

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pay for our honeymoon accommodation yay jesus right after we got married and left the reception

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while we were driving to the hotel for our first night together the atmosphere in the car was

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tangible with an amazing sense of holiness that had us both in awe it is one of the most precious

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memories we share preparing for marriage and actually having a sex life felt so naughty and

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fun and exciting wow we read some christian books on preparing for sex with diagrams and explicit

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directions that did nothing for help us to calm down before the wedding one book even gave explicit

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instructions on how ladies could do sex stretches to prepare for the big event now honeymoon was

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fantastic we stayed in luxury we went on great adventures we had a blast and had sex for the

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very first time lots of sex we were very happy and then uh basically after that it goes downhill

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in the chapter but uh um there's a big heading here that says no sex for ages um and beneath that

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the subtitle is something beneath that is during the most chaotic season in our marriage we would

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go months on end without sex um i'm still racing through to get you guys to these sex statistics

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oh one of the big things on there is seven common sex issues in marriage so one is affairs

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um one is porn here we go who's ready for some sexistics we're gonna start with porn yep

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now i see um jules connecting here this is probably the first thing she's going

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to hear is me talking about porn i'm not sure if she's joined alive before

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um so i'll just wait for her to get on here so we can say hello before she just hears us

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ranting about crazy stuff so um very good you guys feeling okay

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okay yeah feeling good jules welcome

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i see you just joining in how you doing

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oh that's good can you hear us okay jules

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yeah great well i just wanted to say a little hello and a welcome where are you joining in from

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today uk the uk fantastic whereabouts in the uk uh northampton northampton lovely well jules i

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wanted to say a little hello because um we're in we're talking about uh so this is the seven

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sacred pathways to intimacy training and this session we are jumping in on the central pathway

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and the sexual pathway so we're just

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we were at, we were just joining in, I wanted to pause and just say hello because you're just

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joining in as we're talking on some statistics around porn, and I didn't want you just to join

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in and us not to say hello, and then the first thing you hear is me just talking about porn,

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but we're just going to look at some porn statistics in the States and how they've been

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impacting marriages, and then we've got a whole lot of other really, really significant,

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interesting, lots of science, and yeah, it's really going to be a really intriguing session,

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so let's go with some porn statistics, let's try and get you guys involved,

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see if you can guess this, okay, so let's try and get you, okay, so I'll give you a

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couple of stats and then I'll get you to try and guess something, so 57% of pastors in America said

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that porn addictions were the single most damaging issue in their church, how interesting is that?

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57% of pastors in America said that porn was the single most damaging issue in their church,

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that's, that's massive, right, that's huge, that's, wow, and then 69% of pastors stated that

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porn has had a negative impact on their church, so a tiny 7% of pastors said that their church

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provides any type of support to people struggling with porn, interesting, eh? 57% of churches say

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it's their most damaging issue, but only 7% actually do anything about it, like, should we talk

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about it? Nah, let's not talk about it, even though 69% of churches say it's damaging their church in

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some way, only 7% of churches actually address the topic in a significant way, pretty crazy, right?

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So that leaves at least 50% of churches where porn is their biggest issue in their church,

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and yet they aren't doing anything about it at all. Now here's a little bit of shocking

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behind the scenes info of why that might be the case, 68% of men who attend church regularly

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admit to observing pornography on a consistent basis, 76% of Christian young adults between the

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ages of 18 to 24 said that they search for and watch porn on a consistent basis, how crazy is

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that? 76% of 18 to 24 year olds are happy to admit that they search that out on a regular

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basis. So here's what, okay, so I want you to try and guess this now, what percentage of pastors

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admitted that they used porn regularly? Have a try and have a guess on what percentage.

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Nev, welcome, you've come in right at the juicy bit, sorry, Pat? Let's try and have a guess on what percentage.

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Nev, welcome, you've come in right at the juicy bit.

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82%.

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How many? 82.

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82, he has my guess.

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Wow, that's a lot of porn. Okay, so that's a guess there, one guess is 82%.

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Anyone else got a guess on what percentage of pastors were admitting to regular usage of porn?

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50.

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50 from Kat, 50 from Raywin, anyone else got a guess there?

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Okay, well, you guys both got it actually, it said just over 50% of pastors admitted to observing

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porn on a regular basis, which is interesting, right, because that's probably why 50% of

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churches where porn is their biggest issue aren't doing anything about it, it's because the pastor

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hasn't sorted it out in his own life, so let's not talk about it. Oh, crazy, right? That's crazy.

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Now, this survey as well, it's done by the Barna Group and also by Covenant Eyes,

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so if you check out the book, you can actually see, you know, it's got the link to their website,

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so you can go and check out more details there if you want to. 55% of married men and 25%

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of married women admitted to watching porn on at least a monthly basis.

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That's pretty dynamic, eh? At least, you know, that's crazy, because sometimes people think

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this is just a guy's thing, but 25% of married women getting into porn on a monthly basis,

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pretty significant number. 47% of American families acknowledge that porn is a consistent

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problem in their household. 56% of American divorces record one spouse as having an

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obsessive interest in porn sites.

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56% of American divorces. That's huge, right? 56% of American divorces record one spouse

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as having an obsessive interest in porn sites. That is massive.

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So that's the interesting stats, right? Like crazy, actually really like tragic.

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Now let's give you some other stats on orgasms, female orgasms.

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We'll talk a moment about male orgasms as well, but

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oh, here we go. So there's a whole section on health issues that reduce or eliminate

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sex in a marriage. So painful sex and health issues is the topic in this part of the chapter.

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So let's jump into this. Painful sex. Basically, it says there that a bunch of people had painful

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sex, but it shouldn't be. Problems with orgasm. Let's check this out. So during sex, 95% of men

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orgasm. So that's like 95% of men orgasm on sex on average. And have a guess at the average

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number of women who orgasm during vaginal sex alone. Have a guess of what's the percentage

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of women who they have sex and they have an orgasm. What would you guess be? Percentages?

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30. 30? Anyone else have a guess on that?

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Come on, team. Don't be shy, Raewyn. Your mother wasn't.

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Yeah, so I'll go with the 50, just the 49%. So I'll go with that this time. 49%? Okay.

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Sorry, technically challenged. No idea, actually. That's why it's called a guess.

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Oh, I don't know. Between 40 and 50. Yeah, something like that.

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Okay. Nev, got a guess for us? Jules, do you want to get on the action? Everyone's welcome.

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30. Pardon? 30%.

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About 30%. Okay. Anyone else wants to, that's fine. You've also got the chat,

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if you want to drop anything there. Let's check our Facebook world as well.

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And just in case there's anyone dropping things there. No, no one's guessing on Facebook

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right now. It's going to be like 10% or something.

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Okay. How much?

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Is it going to be like 2%? It's 25%. 25% of women

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come to an orgasm through vaginal sex. And 10% to 15% of women never reach orgasm at all.

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So that's the stats they were saying. And all those in between only reach orgasm if stimulated

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by fingers, tongues, or other sex equipment. Interesting. A little interesting. I almost

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thought about whether we should put something in here about Christian sex toys, because I was

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hanging out with a Christian counselor, and she was making all sorts of jokes about sex toys.

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And I looked up Christian sex toys, and there are so many websites dedicated to Christian

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sex toys. There is a stack. So if you're looking, you're not going to have any trouble

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at all finding Christian websites with sex toys. There's masses of them. I was just like,

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oh, wow, there's a lot of... That's interesting. So yeah, there you go. There's some stats. 10%

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to 15% of women never reach orgasm at all. 25% get there through sex. And all those in between.

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So what does that leave? That would leave... I'm just working on my math skills here. That would

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be 60% to 65% of women will only get there if they are actually receiving more than just vaginal sex.

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They'll need fingers, tongues, or other equipment involved in the process.

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Erectile dysfunction. Here's a little bit of... We'll put this onto the guys for a little bit.

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Erectile dysfunction increases with age. The Journal of Sexual Medicine published it

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that 26% of men under the age of 40 have issues with erectile dysfunction.

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Yeah and that number is increased for those who are engaged in porn.

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Premature ejaculation. The International Journal of Impotence reports that up to 30% of men

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worldwide suffer from premature ejaculation. So that's a lot eh? Those are some high,

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those are some really interesting statistics I thought when actually just looking into

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topic of just the physical side of things and the health challenges around sex and

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that. So any thoughts on that from you guys? We'll just open it up here for a moment. Thoughts,

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responses? I just wanted to pop in that in terms of the porn, we never really,

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like in terms of exposure, had anything with the family or anything. And when we went back

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to New Zealand from living overseas for eight years and my oldest daughter was 14, her biggest

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issue was that all her friends, both boys and girls, were addicted to porn. And it was just

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like, well you can imagine what it's like for a girl that's never been exposed to anything like

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that and on a daily basis that was what the conversations were about. That's what they were

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looking at on their phones. The girls particularly were all into these, I don't know, not just

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pornographic but violent novels. And it just, yeah, it just blew our minds that it's, you know,

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that this is all starting at a really young age. And you can see from the statistics it actually

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sets them up for failure in the long run, which is heartbreaking when the majority of them are

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doing it from such a young age. Yeah, I mean it doesn't help that almost every teenager has one

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of these in their pockets. They can get internet wherever they go, like we didn't have access to

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that when we were teenagers. So yeah, it's definitely a real challenge for today's generation.

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I remember when I was a teenager, you know, you go to the, you know, Video Easy, you go to the video

269
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shop, right, and there's always that R18 booth kind of inside there. It's kind of a little bit dark and

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mysterious and they've got all their nasty-ass porn movies in there. It was like, oh, this kind of,

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you know, when we did watch porn a couple of times, not that it wasn't really a big thing for me

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growing up, but a couple of times one of my mates, you know, like stole his dad's dodgy porn videos

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and we watched a bit of porn. It was like, it wasn't really that appealing for me. I'd rather

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like watch an action anyway, but just the access compared to now is, you know, and it was

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actually difficult to access porn. It wasn't just like, oh yeah, just grab it anytime, but now

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porn is everywhere. And there's soft porn everywhere too. I mean, you pick up a magazine

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or there's an ad on TV and there's someone in their underwear, you know, massive larger-than-life

278
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billboards, jockey billboards and things like that, like that's really desensitizing us to

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what should be kept private. Yeah, I think in the beginning when bikinis were coming out,

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I think the way that they started to do that was they had to pay prostitutes to wear bikinis.

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To change the cultural norm. And I think they were even like, what?

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That's kind of funny concept day. Now, whereas like, now like all, you know, everyone's going to

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get their bikini on. I've even like, I just once actually saw this photo of me in one of my

284
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friends' photo albums. It was me wearing a top, a pink bikini top. I was like, what? Because I couldn't

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remember the photo being taken. Then I had to like really jog my memory. I actually were at the

286
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beach one time and I just chucked one of my friends' bikini tops. I was like, yeah. But

287
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just there's a lot of desensitization around the culture. Like in the last, what, you know,

288
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50 years, things are going crazy on that whole area of sex, sexuality. Anyone got any stories?

289
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What are you seeing? What's like really in your face at the moment in that whole area of sex, sexuality?

290
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For me, it's not the issue of sex. It is the symptom rather than the cause.

291
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There's certainly, obviously the spiritual climate has,

292
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there have been many doors opened to all of that,

293
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which is self-perpetuating

294
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and everything that you're saying there.

295
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But actually, deeper than that again,

296
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there is a huge lack of real relationship,

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a lack of understanding how to have intimacy,

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a vulnerability, real genuine connection that is satisfying.

299
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And when we haven't got real genuine connection

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of all types that isn't satisfying,

301
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then we look for the quick fix,

302
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which obviously sex is an instant quick fix

303
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and a sense of satisfaction and a sense of achievement

304
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or a sense of belonging,

305
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depending on whether you're male or female,

306
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which side you're coming from or whatever.

307
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But sex and it being out of control is certainly an issue,

308
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but feeding it and underlying it

309
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is the lack of real connection, real emotional,

310
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just intimacy at every level.

311
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And one of the things that drew me to Raising Royalty

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was that you guys could go there

313
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because if Christians can model that,

314
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rather than, oh, everything's perfect

315
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and we're all smiling and smile of denial,

316
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as they say and all of that,

317
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that if we can actually model true connection

318
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and true togetherness and oneness

319
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and yeah, here I am with all my flaws

320
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and you're gonna be there

321
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and you're not just gonna say a nice prayer and shut me up

322
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and let's be real.

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And if you have that kind of real living alive relationship,

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you're less drawn to the quick fix

325
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and to the instant satisfaction,

326
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which is just like comfort eating really.

327
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And of course it's addictive

328
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and it keeps going on around and around

329
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and you don't ever get what you really need.

330
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So yeah, the sex is a huge issue,

331
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but this other stuff is-

332
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Yeah.

333
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Yeah, lack of value for each other and ourselves.

334
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Yeah.

335
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I think that's actually interesting.

336
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So here's a, I wasn't planning on going here

337
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and today we'll probably cut this off just after 1130

338
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and then we'll do a couple of parts.

339
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We'll do a couple of parts to this one, probably.

340
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But I think that, you know, like here's a story.

341
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A friend of mine, he was away speaking somewhere

342
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on a ministry trip and he came out of the hotel room

343
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and then the lady who was doing the cleaning

344
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came and said, or it was one of the hotel staff was like,

345
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hey, do you want to go back in your room and have sex?

346
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And he just burst out laughing at her.

347
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Not like, not to be rude, but he was just like,

348
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the offer was so tragic in his eyes, you know,

349
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compared to, he was just like, you know,

350
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you don't know who I've got, you know,

351
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waiting for me at home.

352
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You know, why would I throw that away

353
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for like this really tragic offer

354
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that you're giving me right now?

355
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He just burst out laughing.

356
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He's like, man, this is hilarious.

357
00:28:00.360 --> 00:28:04.680
There's no way that I'm going to take up that type of offer

358
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when my amazing wife is at home waiting for me.

359
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But I think that what that highlights to me is,

360
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like in contrast, when we're in Thailand

361
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doing ministry in the red light areas,

362
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there's all these guys with wedding rings

363
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:24.000
walking around with, you know,

364
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16, 15, 14 year old Thai girls and younger,

365
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:31.440
you know, like when we're over there,

366
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the crazy thing over there is that, you know,

367
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we do a bunch of stuff in the pedophile areas

368
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where people are going there and they're getting babies

369
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and kids and it's just, it's horrendous.

370
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:48.160
But, you know, and so many of them as well, married people.

371
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.560
So you're like, oh, what's the difference here?

372
00:28:51.560 --> 00:28:54.080
Like, and it's exactly what you're saying, Niamh,

373
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you know, it's actually the actual connection.

374
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It's actually the firm relationship that's already there

375
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.320
because if there's a healthy relationship,

376
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then like, then, you know,

377
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.400
when someone makes an offer like that, it bounces off.

378
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.360
Whereas when someone's in an unhealthy relationship,

379
00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:15.160
they're already looking.

380
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:17.400
You know, they're already looking for another,

381
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:20.560
oh, I wonder, like, I wonder where I can get this need met.

382
00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:22.680
It's like, hmm, just kind of like,

383
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:24.800
they've already got that opening.

384
00:29:24.800 --> 00:29:27.920
And here's what I was going to say,

385
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.640
like, that I wasn't going to bring it into,

386
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.800
but it's the whole dynamic of what's the real root cause

387
00:29:32.800 --> 00:29:34.960
as opposed to treating symptoms.

388
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Because so much of our mindsets in terms of even Christians,

389
00:29:39.080 --> 00:29:42.680
the psychology that we have is to treat symptoms

390
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:44.800
as opposed to root causes.

391
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And it goes all the way back to Genesis

392
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where you see in Genesis, you see Adam and Eve, right?

393
00:29:49.840 --> 00:29:53.800
They turn their back on God in one conversation with Satan.

394
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But if you look at that in the context

395
00:29:57.360 --> 00:29:59.400
of a healthy relationship with my friend

396
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:00.240
who had a really.

397
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:05.200
relationship already, like his wife, him and his wife, their relationship is strong, someone comes

398
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:12.560
along, makes him an offer, it just bounces off, he laughs. So if Adam and Eve actually had a really

399
00:30:12.560 --> 00:30:17.440
good relationship with their father right then in that moment and Satan came along and made them an

400
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:25.520
offer, they would have just laughed, right? But the issue actually goes deeper. So if you look in

401
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:34.720
Genesis 3, you see how orphans respond when Satan makes them an offer, which is they say yes and

402
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:39.760
they take the bait and they go and do something ridiculous, whereas if you look in Matthew 3

403
00:30:39.760 --> 00:30:47.840
in the temptation of Jesus, Matthew 4, he shows in Matthew 4 what it looks like when a son gets

404
00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:54.800
tempted and how a son responds, and a son responds like every single time Satan got a beat down

405
00:30:54.800 --> 00:31:02.080
and a son walks in victory in every context. So see the issue with the church is they say that

406
00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:07.360
the issue was the fall, but the fall was a symptom of a pre-existing issue, otherwise you wouldn't

407
00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:12.960
have had the fall. But it's just, it's evidence of this whole mindset, which is what you're

408
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.680
highlighting, is that everyone's going around trying to treat symptoms and no one's talking

409
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:23.040
about the root cause, which is the root cause for Adam and Eve is the same root cause for us,

410
00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:28.160
which is the fact that they didn't know their father and they didn't know their identity

411
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:33.920
in the very beginning, and that's what led to the fall. If they had been firm in their revelation

412
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:38.640
of the father and firm in their identity, then they would have looked like Jesus, because Jesus

413
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.280
gave the example of what it looks like to be firm in your revelation of the father, what it looks

414
00:31:43.280 --> 00:31:49.120
like to be firm in your identity, and that's where no one's going, you know, and because the church

415
00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:54.880
neglects to teach identity and neglects to teach sonship, they haven't dealt with the core

416
00:31:54.880 --> 00:32:00.240
psychology and the core identity issues, and so when we come to marriage and we're trying to deal

417
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:05.360
with our issues in marriage or we're trying to deal with over 50% of pastors, why are over 50%

418
00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:11.520
of pastors jerking off the porn? It's because they haven't dealt with their identity stuff,

419
00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:17.120
you know, they're still stuck in all this orphanology and it doesn't work to treat those

420
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:24.160
things in the secret places, so like our porn addictions, so yeah, it's a really interesting

421
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:27.280
thought that you brought up, Nev, any thoughts to follow that?

422
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:34.320
Benji, preach it, just preach it, it's just so good, what you're saying is just so good,

423
00:32:34.320 --> 00:32:40.080
it's just, I'm trying hard not to whoop here, really, honestly, I am, it's just so good.

424
00:32:40.080 --> 00:32:41.280
Not to what?

425
00:32:41.280 --> 00:32:42.640
Whoop, you know, woohoo!

426
00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:46.000
Oh, you feel free, you're allowed to whoop, you're allowed to whoop,

427
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:48.640
you can whoop as much as you like, whooping's really good.

428
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:54.320
And what struck me is, I don't know if you've read Blake Healy, Blake Healy, he's Bethel, not

429
00:32:55.600 --> 00:32:57.280
I've heard of him but I haven't read his book.

430
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:04.800
It's interesting to read his book because he has, you know, like he's a seer but he literally sees

431
00:33:04.800 --> 00:33:09.440
demons and angels in the same way that you and I see people, and so he just has this

432
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:15.520
extraordinary gift and had to do a huge journey around how to handle it before, in any case.

433
00:33:17.040 --> 00:33:22.880
So it's very graphic what he says because it's just visual, you know, but he really made,

434
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:29.200
in one of his books, not the original one I think, he wrote a book called Indestructible,

435
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:36.320
and he talks about, again, seeing demons coming, attacking girls on their way to Sunday school

436
00:33:36.320 --> 00:33:41.200
type of thing, and he just sees them in that bubble where they're in a place of health,

437
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:46.560
where they know their identity in effect, and this thing comes at them and he's going,

438
00:33:47.600 --> 00:33:56.320
and it just, it's bounced off, it can't get near them, because they are just secure in who they

439
00:33:56.320 --> 00:34:02.240
are. They're children of the king and they're going off to their, you know, children's ministry,

440
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:06.240
and nothing can get near them, and he just, he's making the same point you're making,

441
00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:12.639
but in the visual, if you like, and it's just so good. So preach it, brother.

442
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:19.600
Thanks, and actually, I mean, the whole dynamic of the book, The Seven Sacred Pathways to Intimacy,

443
00:34:19.600 --> 00:34:27.360
all starts with identity. So we've, you know, the last several sessions we looked at that,

444
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:34.320
you know, the foundational pathways, which was identity, emotions, and intellectual intimacy. So

445
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:40.880
sensual and sexual. I just read to you guys a little bit about, you know, from the start of

446
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:48.639
the sexual chapter there, which is the last chapter. His favorite chapter. Oh yeah. But

447
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:55.360
I read to you about our honeymoon. Our honeymoon was awesome. We had sex for the first time,

448
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:59.840
and then we had lots of sex following that, which was lots of fun, and then we got home.

449
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:07.000
And it was, it became absolutely tragic.

450
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:14.000
So, and I mean, it wasn't great.

451
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:29.000
And then I kind of like, we started, you know, if you've been tracking with it, you know, we've had this conversation so many times between Lana and I about, I'll initiate, she won't be interested, I'll trigger, that'll cause her to trigger, then I'll trigger back, and we're just going to get stuck in this nasty cycle, right?

452
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:35.000
So, in the worst of that, it was months that we went without having sex.

453
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:48.000
So, I'm not sure exactly, but I think the longest stint was probably, I don't know, seven or so months or something without sex, which was like, pretty annoying.

454
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.000
Probably when I was pregnant.

455
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.000
You were pregnant.

456
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:52.000
Maybe.

457
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:53.000
Yeah.

458
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.000
Yeah, I remember those things reasonably well.

459
00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.000
It's just always me.

460
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:03.000
But I'm like, babe, did you realize it's been a week since we've had sex?

461
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.000
And she'd be like, no, I had no idea.

462
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.000
We just had it, didn't we?

463
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:10.000
And I'm like, no, no, it's been 11 and a half days.

464
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:11.000
Did you not realize?

465
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:14.000
And six hours and 43 minutes and 10 seconds.

466
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.000
Yeah.

467
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.000
And Lana's like, well, I thought we just had sex.

468
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:19.000
And I'm like, well, no, actually.

469
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.000
So, one of the interesting things, right?

470
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.000
So, we're going to talk about the sensual and the sexual.

471
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:29.000
We won't cover heaps more today.

472
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:33.000
We'll do a little bit, and then we'll jump back into it next week.

473
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:43.000
But we read the, well, you know, you guys all are familiar, right, with the five love languages?

474
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:49.000
So, the sensual pathway, we call that the forgotten pathway, because in the five love languages book,

475
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.000
even though they highlight the fact that there's a difference between, you know,

476
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.000
like that sensuality is a big part of the love language,

477
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:59.000
I think that for a lot of people, especially like myself,

478
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:05.000
read the five love languages and just assume physical touch is like you want a happy ending.

479
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.000
To me, that's where all good physical touch should have a happy ending.

480
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:12.000
Whereas if you're a sensual minded person, like just a cuddle.

481
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.000
I just want to hold your hand. I just want to cuddle you.

482
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.000
I just want to sit next to you on the couch.

483
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.000
Or I might just want to like walk past you.

484
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:21.000
Oh, that's great.

485
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.000
And then he's like, oh.

486
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:24.000
Yeah.

487
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:27.000
Oh, I'm sure that's supposed to have a happy ending.

488
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.000
You know, you're going somewhere with this, right?

489
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:39.000
So, we really, well, for myself, anyway, I hadn't made the distinction between the sensual and the sexual that there is.

490
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.000
And for me, it's because I just love both, right?

491
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:44.000
I'm like, yes, this is fantastic.

492
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:49.000
Like I'll suck up, I'll have all the sensual and then I'll have all the sexual and I'll be absolutely stoked.

493
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:51.000
I'm like, yes, that's all great.

494
00:37:51.000 --> 00:38:02.000
But in the process of our chaos and me triggering and punishing Alana and all of those things.

495
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.000
And then even after we got counseling and they said, okay, schedule six nights.

496
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:07.000
This will be really good.

497
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:10.000
We did that and we scheduled six nights.

498
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:12.000
We scheduled sensual nights, but then we lied to each other.

499
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:14.000
We broke our promises and we didn't keep it.

500
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.000
And then we both punished each other some more.

501
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.000
And it was like, ah, this is a mess.

502
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:26.000
So, ended up creating this really, like for Alana, the dynamic of sex became an unsafe place.

503
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:28.000
Well, the dynamic of touch.

504
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:29.000
Yeah, touch.

505
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:32.000
Because his equation is touch equals sex.

506
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:35.000
And so, I avoided touch at all costs.

507
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.000
Yeah.

508
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.000
Which was a bit of a fail for me.

509
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:41.000
Means he got no touch.

510
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:44.000
And then I would moan and I'd like whine.

511
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.000
I'd get my victim on.

512
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:47.000
I'm like, you never touched me.

513
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:49.000
Yeah, because I don't want to have sex.

514
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:54.000
But then I'd moan a little bit more and then she would touch me.

515
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.000
And I'd be like, yes, she wants to have sex.

516
00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.000
But she was just being sensual.

517
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:03.000
And so, we spent way too many years.

518
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.000
Figuring that all out.

519
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:10.000
But I think one of the things that people often don't realize is that there's a sensual.

520
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:13.000
The sensual pathway is its own pathway.

521
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:15.000
And the sexual pathway is its own pathway.

522
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:22.000
And every person has their own level of preference in that.

523
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:26.000
And it's funny as well because I've got some friends, you know, female friends.

524
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.000
And they're like, well, our marriage is like the same as yours.

525
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.000
Except that the chick is the, is the sex freak.

526
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.000
And the husband just likes the sensual.

527
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.000
You know, so it's, it's, it's.

528
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:41.000
There's a different dynamic in every relationship.

529
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:42.000
Yeah, that's what I'm saying is like,

530
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.000
everyone's going to have their own place where they sit in the spectrum of

531
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.000
what do you like?

532
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.000
It's all going to be different for each couple.

533
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:52.000
It's not like the guys are like this and girls are like this.

534
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.000
It's not like everyone's in their own space.

535
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:58.000
So any, any thoughts on that, guys?

536
00:39:58.000 --> 00:39:59.000
Anyone want to chat something out?

537
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.000
Anyone got a story?

538
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:15.000
story. Good to see you guys from Whangarei there. You guys are muted, I can't hear you.

539
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:39.000
G'day. What you said was the sensual field of human experiences is its own pathway and the sexual thing is its own pathway.

540
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:53.000
Well, I kind of think that's a bit sort of, I'm blanking my thinking. I think that they are related together. I think you can't have one without the other. You can't have good sex without an understanding of sensuality.

541
00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:01.000
Well, it will help. They are two different pathways. So for example, I can give Alana a massage without humping her leg.

542
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:03.000
Oh, now I get it.

543
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.000
They do overlap.

544
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.000
Oh, yes. Put it in those terms I understand now.

545
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.000
Yeah, see that made it clear, didn't it?

546
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:21.000
You're very open about it, aren't you? Wow, I love that honesty. Right on.

547
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:35.000
So yeah, the sensual pathway is, that's all the things like holding hands, cuddling, snuggling, massage. Yeah, so those things are great, but they're not sexual, you know.

548
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.000
They can lead to sexual.

549
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:53.000
They can, totally. So Alana's preference, right, is that she would, if it's, because we will do different times when it's, you know, like she's going to look after me and I'm going to look after her. We just, it's about finding out what each other, you know, we talked about this last week in the intellectual.

550
00:41:54.000 --> 00:42:02.000
It's finding out exactly, you know, you get to be that world expert on what your partner wants, likes, you know, what they want, when they want it and how they like it.

551
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:17.000
You get to be the person who understands that more than anyone. And so we just try and say, hey, what do you want? When do you want it? How do you like it the most? And so for Alana, the classic is a full body oil massage and that's her happy place.

552
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:26.000
And because like our sex life is way better than it's ever been. I'd say it's pretty good. Yes. And he's getting what he needs and I'm getting what I need, but I don't need sex.

553
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:41.000
To be honest, like I could take it or leave it even now, even though it's good on my ass. So for me, having that sensual pathway is important because it's respecting the fact that I need more than just the sexual touch, if that makes sense.

554
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:47.000
To me, the sensual touch is more important for me.

555
00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:08.000
Yeah, totally. So it's just that's the whole dynamic of knowing that mastering the intellectual pathway is you become really curious. And then there's another really cool part as well, which is probably more to do with like communication, right, which is being really good negotiators.

556
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:29.000
So you've got to be curious, right? And you've got to be vulnerable. But you've also got to be really, really good negotiators and really generous negotiators. So if you're not a really generous negotiator, things can get tricky. And this is one of the things that's changed up for us is we just got more generous with each other.

557
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:39.000
You can live in a love deficit, or you can live in a love overflow. And that's really going to depend on how generous you are in your negotiations.

558
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:58.000
And that for us has been an upward spiral. Whereas previously, we were a downward spiral. So I feel like that generosity is kind of built and built and built to the point where it's completely mutual, we can anticipate the other person sort of what they need, and that kind of thing. And that's an upward spiral that just keeps going up.

559
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:08.000
So, yeah, I think like, we through those two pathways, we've learned to respect each other, and that and what each of us needs out of it.

560
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:31.000
Yeah. So anyone else, some thoughts here from you guys on sensual sexual pathways, anyone had trouble with this, or it's been perfect for everyone. No one's ever had any, any issues. Everyone's had the best orgasms of their life. They've never had any issues with porn. Everything's just been perfect. If that's you, then we definitely want to hear your secrets.

561
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.000
Otherwise, someone check out some stories of how things are in your world or.

562
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:56.000
I just think it's just, I mean, I just can't. My, my husband's just amazing, because he's just really linked. I mean, it's been a little bit like this, you know, you kind of learn and you grow and you learn. It's just amazing in there.

563
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.000
Yeah.

564
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:11.200
You know, I went through a stage of postnatal depression and really, I just wanted to cuddle

565
00:45:11.200 --> 00:45:23.160
most of the day, and all I was after, you know, and he really, it was hard for him,

566
00:45:23.160 --> 00:45:30.520
but like you said, he was really generous, generous, I can't say it, with, you know,

567
00:45:30.520 --> 00:45:37.600
giving me all the love and support I needed at that moment without, you know, it was hard

568
00:45:37.600 --> 00:45:45.680
on him because there were periods of time, you know, months sometimes where I just, you

569
00:45:45.680 --> 00:45:54.000
know, I just didn't have the energy, I felt totally sacked of all emotion in a lot of

570
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.000
ways.

571
00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:03.920
So, yeah, so I think that generosity is really key, and it's been by specifics, when Chris

572
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:11.680
is really busy, he's very, you know, like if he's very, there's a lot on at school,

573
00:46:11.680 --> 00:46:17.920
I have to, you know, I have to allow him to be in that place, he's very linear, you know,

574
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:25.760
he finds it kind of almost feel like sometimes his husband on the holidays and teacher at

575
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:33.680
school time, but we understand that about each other, and it's just been able to communicate

576
00:46:33.680 --> 00:46:39.880
with each other, like you're saying, about what our needs are, and we get, we've got

577
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:42.840
better and better at it as time's gone on.

578
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:47.640
Yeah, I think that's a really valid point that there is an even flow and sometimes it

579
00:46:47.640 --> 00:46:56.040
requires one person to be given 95 or even 100% and the other person just receiving.

580
00:46:56.040 --> 00:47:01.800
And I think like for us, there were times in the past, especially post baby, where I

581
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:07.560
actually needed to be given 100% and that didn't happen, which led to like some of our

582
00:47:07.640 --> 00:47:09.880
darkest days, for sure.

583
00:47:12.600 --> 00:47:14.120
Yeah, yeah, totally.

584
00:47:14.680 --> 00:47:20.520
Yeah, like when one person's totally at rock bottom, but the other person, like me, I was

585
00:47:20.520 --> 00:47:23.000
like, punishing me for being at rock bottom.

586
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:30.120
Yeah, like, you know, and so you just get that law of diminishing returns, everything

587
00:47:30.120 --> 00:47:31.320
just starts spiraling down.

588
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:34.040
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

589
00:47:34.040 --> 00:47:40.280
And it's just, I mean, it gets messy, but it's actually the messy times that actually

590
00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:41.800
often prompt you.

591
00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:46.680
I think you've talked about it, Benji, haven't you, you know, like you get to the rock bottom

592
00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:51.160
where you've got to actually do something about this because it's harming us, you know,

593
00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:57.400
and it's that, yeah, it's that communication, which is really great.

594
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:05.560
And I've always been, you know, Chris always talks about, you know, like I am a love and

595
00:48:05.560 --> 00:48:06.600
touch person.

596
00:48:06.600 --> 00:48:13.080
I think we watched something just before, or you know, we did lots of very similar story

597
00:48:13.080 --> 00:48:14.120
to you guys.

598
00:48:14.120 --> 00:48:21.240
So in so many ways, read lots of books, had no experience before we entered into marriage

599
00:48:22.200 --> 00:48:30.200
and, yeah, it was just, it's just that understanding of each other has been so good.

600
00:48:30.200 --> 00:48:34.600
There was something else I was going to say there, but it's gone now, it might come back

601
00:48:34.600 --> 00:48:36.600
to me.

602
00:48:36.600 --> 00:48:38.600
Yeah, no worries.

603
00:48:38.600 --> 00:48:41.640
I just see a question here coming from Jules.

604
00:48:41.640 --> 00:48:47.960
Jules said, what do you think about people with Asperger's who are intelligent, but come

605
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:50.920
share themselves and be intimate?

606
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:56.520
Surely it starts with intimate, vulnerable conversations before anything else.

607
00:48:56.520 --> 00:48:58.520
So a bit of a dead end.

608
00:48:58.520 --> 00:49:04.520
So anyone, thoughts on, thoughts on that from everyone?

609
00:49:04.520 --> 00:49:12.280
I can comment on that one because I know quite a few people who are very, very mild touch

610
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:14.280
of autism.

611
00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:20.520
Not at the stage where they might get a full diagnosis, but there's just a little bit of

612
00:49:20.520 --> 00:49:22.520
that there.

613
00:49:22.520 --> 00:49:29.640
And I just, in my experience, we're engaging with people and it's like, if you picture

614
00:49:29.640 --> 00:49:34.120
a comb on the top, it's a functional bit is all grand.

615
00:49:34.120 --> 00:49:38.920
And then the next bit is deeper emotional connection that Jules is talking about there,

616
00:49:39.160 --> 00:49:44.200
but there's a bit deeper again, where there's an intimacy of connection that people who

617
00:49:44.200 --> 00:49:50.600
have a slight touch of autism, I can't speak for people who have a lot of it, can connect

618
00:49:50.600 --> 00:49:57.000
at a very profound level, almost below the level of emotional processing.

619
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:09.200
But it can cause huge problems, because there's that middle bit where the meeting isn't happening,

620
00:50:09.200 --> 00:50:17.560
and it really takes huge commitment to actually bridge that gap, because one person will want

621
00:50:17.560 --> 00:50:24.800
the communication to be verbal, and the person with the autism, even if it's slight, can

622
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:31.240
do tremendous emotional connection at a very visceral level, but they can't do the verbal

623
00:50:31.240 --> 00:50:33.560
bit and the emotional processing bit.

624
00:50:33.560 --> 00:50:34.560
So yeah, it's a tough one.

625
00:50:34.560 --> 00:50:35.560
It's a really tough one.

626
00:50:35.560 --> 00:50:36.560
Yeah.

627
00:50:36.560 --> 00:50:37.560
Yeah.

628
00:50:37.560 --> 00:50:38.560
I think...

629
00:50:38.560 --> 00:50:39.560
Yeah.

630
00:50:39.560 --> 00:50:40.560
Someone's going to jump in there.

631
00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:41.560
Did you guys have something to add?

632
00:50:41.560 --> 00:50:42.560
Yes.

633
00:50:42.560 --> 00:50:43.560
I have ASD.

634
00:50:43.560 --> 00:51:06.680
They used to call it Aspergers, but I've had a really difficult time in my life just forming

635
00:51:06.680 --> 00:51:14.800
ordinary social relationships and communicating socially with people to begin with.

636
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:22.760
I was diagnosed late in my life, I was in my 50s, and so I look back at all the maladjustments,

637
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:26.420
and I see, okay, God made me in a special way.

638
00:51:26.420 --> 00:51:33.840
So I have to work within that, and there's no other path for me to find fulfillment in

639
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:40.640
relationship, but to look at the way my brain is wired and look at how I tend to respond

640
00:51:40.640 --> 00:51:45.040
to life on a daily basis, and I think that's the key.

641
00:51:45.040 --> 00:51:48.440
But you're also good at learning things, right?

642
00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:49.440
Yes.

643
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.440
That's cool.

644
00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:51.440
Yeah.

645
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:52.440
I'm happy with that.

646
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:55.200
What do you do as a trade?

647
00:51:55.200 --> 00:51:59.160
I have been unemployed, but I have worked in a hospital, I've been to university, I've

648
00:51:59.160 --> 00:52:01.740
got a degree.

649
00:52:01.740 --> 00:52:08.780
At the moment, I've been doing some farm work and garden work for friends.

650
00:52:08.780 --> 00:52:10.900
Let's talk about your degree for a second.

651
00:52:10.900 --> 00:52:13.460
Was that hard work, getting a degree?

652
00:52:13.460 --> 00:52:17.580
The actual subject matter wasn't hard for me.

653
00:52:17.580 --> 00:52:24.660
It was the social environment and the anxiety of getting assignments in on time, all that

654
00:52:24.660 --> 00:52:25.660
kind of thing.

655
00:52:25.660 --> 00:52:29.580
Performance anxiety, exam anxiety, all that kind of thing.

656
00:52:29.580 --> 00:52:30.580
Yeah.

657
00:52:31.100 --> 00:52:39.700
I guess what I'm just trying to highlight there is, there are some principles that if

658
00:52:39.700 --> 00:52:44.420
we don't put them in place, like what we're talking about in the Seven Sacred Pathways,

659
00:52:44.420 --> 00:52:49.300
if we don't put those principles in place, then we're always going to have friction in

660
00:52:49.300 --> 00:52:50.300
relationships.

661
00:52:50.300 --> 00:53:00.180
Either a friction in our relationship or complete devastation of a relationship.

662
00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:03.820
That's if we don't implement the principles that God's put in place for how to have great

663
00:53:03.820 --> 00:53:04.820
relationships.

664
00:53:04.820 --> 00:53:08.820
You can't neglect the principles and expect to have a great relationship.

665
00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:13.980
The thing as well is that a lot of people neglect the principles just because they don't

666
00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:19.820
understand them, or they don't even know that they're there.

667
00:53:19.820 --> 00:53:28.460
Even if you've got a level of Asperger's, you can still learn principles that will completely

668
00:53:28.540 --> 00:53:29.540
change the game.

669
00:53:29.540 --> 00:53:36.340
Now, it might be a little bit harder, but what I'm saying is, it's not as hard as being

670
00:53:36.340 --> 00:53:38.580
unaware of the principles.

671
00:53:38.580 --> 00:53:39.580
Okay.

672
00:53:39.580 --> 00:53:45.180
So, that's why Hosea says, my people perish for lack of knowledge.

673
00:53:45.180 --> 00:53:51.500
So, you've got one level, which is you don't understand the principles of the Seven Sacred

674
00:53:51.500 --> 00:53:52.500
Pathways.

675
00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:56.460
If you don't understand those, then you are set up not just for friction, but potential

676
00:53:56.460 --> 00:54:02.860
destruction in your relationship, because you're not even aware of the principles that

677
00:54:02.860 --> 00:54:06.420
create intimacy in a relationship.

678
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:08.580
So that's one level, is just not being aware of it.

679
00:54:08.580 --> 00:54:12.820
And I think that a lot of people actually in that place, I would say that most people

680
00:54:12.820 --> 00:54:15.580
aren't taught, where do you go?

681
00:54:15.580 --> 00:54:18.620
Even churches don't teach things like the Seven Sacred Pathways.

682
00:54:18.620 --> 00:54:23.220
You can get in church, we got some good communication stuff by Danny Silk.

683
00:54:23.220 --> 00:54:24.220
We got the five love languages.

684
00:54:24.220 --> 00:54:25.220
Interesting CDs.

685
00:54:25.220 --> 00:54:34.660
We got some interesting CDs that told you how to stretch your vagina before your honeymoon.

686
00:54:34.660 --> 00:54:35.660
We saw a few interesting...

687
00:54:35.660 --> 00:54:40.380
And then our upbringings of like, don't have sex.

688
00:54:40.380 --> 00:54:41.380
Yeah.

689
00:54:41.380 --> 00:54:42.380
That was Alana's.

690
00:54:42.380 --> 00:54:49.460
Alana's, they were in the Dutch Reformed Church, basically saying sex is evil, which we touched

691
00:54:49.460 --> 00:54:50.460
on it last time.

692
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:56.380
And then we went all the way back to Augustine and Jerome, way back over 1,500 years ago.

693
00:54:56.380 --> 00:55:00.020
So that's why I would suggest...

694
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:05.760
so many people in churches are like just set up to fail in a sense because the foundations aren't

695
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:14.960
there. But it's not just church, it's everywhere. If you look at, I've got a handful of people who

696
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:18.320
aren't Christians who hear that I've written this book and they're like, oh man, I really want to

697
00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:24.560
read that book because no one's telling them the seven sacred pathways to intimacy either. So one

698
00:55:24.560 --> 00:55:29.600
level is not even knowing they exist. And then the next level is trying to learn something.

699
00:55:29.680 --> 00:55:33.840
And I love this quote from Dave Rebell that is, if something's worth doing well,

700
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:38.160
it's worth doing badly while I get better at it.

701
00:55:41.600 --> 00:55:45.680
I can relate to that, Benji. I can really relate to that, yes.

702
00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:53.920
And so I think that for Jules as well, it might like, and this applied to us too,

703
00:55:54.080 --> 00:56:02.320
when we didn't know the seven sacred pathways, it was chaos. When we started to understand them,

704
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:10.960
it went from chaos to messy. And we did things really badly. But then as we started to get

705
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:16.480
better, we were doing things badly, but we were getting better at it while we were doing them

706
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:23.280
badly. And we just kept on doing them badly for quite a while. Let's just keep on doing this.

707
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:27.440
It's not working, but let's just keep on doing it badly. But what we were doing is actually

708
00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:33.200
getting better at it. So we were doing things really badly, but we were slightly improving

709
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:41.440
how we were doing them in the process. And I think that's where, not just, I mean, I think

710
00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:45.520
that's not just in the Spurges issue. I think that's like for everyone, but I would just chuck

711
00:56:45.520 --> 00:56:50.080
that out there for the people who find that, okay, I'm really, really difficult at this.

712
00:56:50.080 --> 00:56:54.480
I'm really struggling. I'll say that most people really struggle in relationships. And I know that

713
00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:00.080
Asperger's is going to chuck some extra challenges out there in the process. But I think, you know,

714
00:57:00.080 --> 00:57:04.800
we've got that chaos space where we don't know what we're doing wrong. We've got that messy

715
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:10.160
space where we're doing things really badly, but it takes just this, you know, it can be a long

716
00:57:10.160 --> 00:57:16.000
time in that messy place. It was for us just doing it badly while we were trying to get better at it.

717
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:25.040
I think it was a few weeks ago, we were talking about learning about how our partner communicates

718
00:57:25.040 --> 00:57:31.360
and how best to communicate with them. And that's obviously a process. And I do think with something

719
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:35.920
like Asperger's or whatever, there's probably actually something that you can learn as a partner

720
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:43.120
to help them unlock and that kind of thing. So it could be that both of you need to learn some skills

721
00:57:43.120 --> 00:57:51.360
there. It's always, it's always both. Yeah, always both. It's always both. So, yeah, that

722
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.520
could be something you could look into too, as ways to actually connect emotionally with someone

723
00:57:55.520 --> 00:58:01.840
who struggles to do that for themselves. Yeah, because there's another friend of mine that

724
00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:07.760
actually pointed out that she really finds it hard. She just needs someone other to talk to

725
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:13.280
because she's got a husband that's got Asperger's as well. Asperger's person as well. And, okay, we'll

726
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:20.480
connect and might be able to communicate with other and just pray and help one another out.

727
00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:25.040
Because we both have a, and it's quite a hard case because both our husbands names Anthony. It's like,

728
00:58:26.320 --> 00:58:33.360
and they're both got Asperger's. So, but yeah, it's about, yeah, it's been sympathetic to one

729
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:40.240
another and these, yeah, and learning ways and encouraging one another so that we, you know,

730
00:58:40.240 --> 00:58:46.000
can be safe within our relationships. So, yeah. Yeah, and so much of the time it actually,

731
00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:51.360
it actually comes back to what do you want, which again is where the book starts. Like,

732
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:55.840
you've got to choose your heart, right? Like being married to someone with Asperger's

733
00:58:56.640 --> 00:59:00.480
is going to be hard, but, you know, it's just going to be hard to be married to anyone.

734
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:03.840
You know, it's not, not just Asperger's, it's just hard to be married to anyone, but it's also

735
00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:09.680
hard to be divorced to anyone. You know, like, it's hard to be single. It's hard to be divorced.

736
00:59:09.680 --> 00:59:13.920
It's hard to be engaged. It's hard to do dating. It's hard to be married. It's hard to be separated.

737
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:21.200
It's all hard. And so we don't really have a place where we get the option of not hard.

738
00:59:21.200 --> 00:59:26.800
You just don't get a break. Yeah, like life, life doesn't present, and especially in relationships,

739
00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:32.160
life doesn't present you with a, you know, it's not like, you know, monopoly where you get a get

740
00:59:32.160 --> 00:59:36.640
out of jail free card, you land on chance and you get a get out of free, you know, get out of jail

741
00:59:36.640 --> 00:59:41.760
free card. Life doesn't offer you that option, especially in relationships. It's like, it just

742
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:48.880
offers you the card, which just says, choose your heart. So do you want the heart of being divorced,

743
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:55.600
or do you want the heart of working on your marriage? And I think for all of us, regardless

744
00:59:55.600 --> 00:59:59.760
of where each individual is at, is you've got that hard to choose.

745
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.520
And I think that a good quote that really helped me so much

746
01:00:04.520 --> 01:00:06.440
in our struggle days was something

747
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:08.160
one of Alana's uncles said, I think,

748
01:00:08.160 --> 01:00:10.760
which is, you choose your love.

749
01:00:10.760 --> 01:00:11.600
What's that, auntie?

750
01:00:11.600 --> 01:00:13.240
Yeah, auntie, you choose your love

751
01:00:13.240 --> 01:00:15.000
and then you love your choice.

752
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:18.200
I love, I really, really love that quote.

753
01:00:18.200 --> 01:00:22.160
You choose your love and then you love your choice.

754
01:00:22.160 --> 01:00:25.840
That really helped my psychology in the process

755
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:27.400
of when things were really difficult.

756
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:29.800
It's like, oh, this really sucks.

757
01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:32.120
And you're not enjoying being married to each other,

758
01:00:32.120 --> 01:00:34.480
but then you've actually got this value

759
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:37.440
that you choose your love and then you love your choice.

760
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:39.400
And then you keep asking yourself,

761
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:41.160
what does love look like?

762
01:00:42.680 --> 01:00:44.480
So yeah, you're asking yourself,

763
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:46.440
what does love look like in this process?

764
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:48.960
So that would be a question I would chuck out there

765
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:51.200
to you guys, you know, when you're finding it hard,

766
01:00:51.200 --> 01:00:55.040
is to ask yourself, what does love look like?

767
01:00:55.040 --> 01:00:58.000
Louisa, great to have you jumping in here.

768
01:00:58.000 --> 01:00:59.600
Can you hear us okay?

769
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:02.080
Yeah, I can hear you.

770
01:01:02.080 --> 01:01:03.440
Great stuff, very cool.

771
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:05.800
You're jumping in just right at the tail end of this session.

772
01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:07.440
We're gonna be wrapping it up in a few minutes, but-

773
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:09.120
That's fine, I'll watch the replay.

774
01:01:09.120 --> 01:01:11.880
Yeah, very cool, but it is awesome to have you jumping on.

775
01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:14.320
So thanks for being with us.

776
01:01:16.280 --> 01:01:18.480
So I think, yeah, that's probably,

777
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:23.320
that was a really, really helpful mindset for me

778
01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:25.480
in the process of you choose your love

779
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:29.720
and love your choice going through,

780
01:01:29.720 --> 01:01:31.520
you know, whatever you're going through.

781
01:01:31.520 --> 01:01:33.400
But did anyone else have anything

782
01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:35.080
they wanted to share, any stories,

783
01:01:35.080 --> 01:01:36.560
anything else they wanted to chuck out there?

784
01:01:36.560 --> 01:01:38.040
Yes, Kat, come on.

785
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:42.320
So first of all, I think, yes, we do have things,

786
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:44.080
but both sides have to choose that.

787
01:01:45.080 --> 01:01:47.200
That's one thing that I'm a bit,

788
01:01:47.200 --> 01:01:48.720
sometimes that's the tricky part,

789
01:01:48.720 --> 01:01:50.960
that one person's willing and the other one

790
01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:54.520
has just decided to let it go or give up or I don't know.

791
01:01:54.520 --> 01:01:58.000
So it's, yeah, but yeah, life's hard, man.

792
01:01:58.000 --> 01:01:59.600
We do hard things.

793
01:01:59.600 --> 01:02:02.360
Yeah, that's us, that's the anthem of raising royalty.

794
01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:03.600
We do hard things.

795
01:02:03.600 --> 01:02:07.120
We've definitely learned that a lot in a ministry context

796
01:02:07.120 --> 01:02:08.520
is that you can't work harder

797
01:02:08.520 --> 01:02:10.760
than the other person is willing to work.

798
01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:12.840
That equation doesn't work.

799
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:13.800
Yeah.

800
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:15.400
And that's the same with marriage,

801
01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:16.880
is you can't work harder

802
01:02:16.880 --> 01:02:19.000
than the other person is willing to work.

803
01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:23.440
That's a really important dynamic too,

804
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:25.160
because that's, you know,

805
01:02:25.160 --> 01:02:28.160
we'll look at the leadership pathway soon as well,

806
01:02:28.160 --> 01:02:30.560
but you've got three types of relationships

807
01:02:30.560 --> 01:02:32.040
that you're gonna end up having,

808
01:02:32.040 --> 01:02:36.040
which is a power struggle relationship

809
01:02:36.040 --> 01:02:37.440
where you've got two powerful people

810
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:38.600
and no one's willing to budge

811
01:02:38.600 --> 01:02:40.480
and you both fight for what you want.

812
01:02:41.680 --> 01:02:44.240
Or you've got a codependent relationship

813
01:02:44.240 --> 01:02:47.400
where one person goes passive aggressive

814
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:49.440
and just becomes a yes man and just is like,

815
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:51.760
yes, yes, yes, says yes all the time,

816
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:54.680
but actually hates them every time they say yes,

817
01:02:54.680 --> 01:02:56.520
they're actually saying, I hate you.

818
01:02:56.520 --> 01:02:58.560
And, you know, they take it away and they resent it.

819
01:02:58.560 --> 01:03:01.120
And then you've got two powerful people

820
01:03:01.120 --> 01:03:04.800
where you have healthy boundaries

821
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:07.920
and you work things out together

822
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:10.160
and it might be messy, but you do it,

823
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:14.920
you do it without one person, you know,

824
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:17.520
trying to manipulate or control,

825
01:03:17.520 --> 01:03:19.800
because, you know, like a power struggle relationship

826
01:03:19.800 --> 01:03:22.160
is two people trying to manipulate

827
01:03:22.160 --> 01:03:23.960
and control each other through force.

828
01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:27.920
A codependent relationship is still, you know,

829
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:29.120
a passive aggressive person

830
01:03:29.120 --> 01:03:30.760
is still trying to manipulate and control,

831
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:34.240
they're just using techniques that don't work out very well

832
01:03:34.240 --> 01:03:37.360
and then they end up just getting angry and sulky.

833
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:38.480
And then you've got the other person

834
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:40.240
that kind of like dominating them totally

835
01:03:40.240 --> 01:03:43.320
and kind of making all the decisions for them.

836
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:47.120
We've got that powerful people relationship,

837
01:03:47.120 --> 01:03:49.000
which is what we want to all build towards

838
01:03:49.120 --> 01:03:51.440
getting to that place of being powerful people.

839
01:03:53.560 --> 01:03:57.080
So maybe as we wrap this up,

840
01:03:57.080 --> 01:03:59.640
maybe one kind of last question, conversation,

841
01:03:59.640 --> 01:04:04.480
how would you see the dynamic of power struggle,

842
01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:07.560
codependent and powerful people?

843
01:04:07.560 --> 01:04:11.160
How would you see that playing out in your sex life?

844
01:04:13.680 --> 01:04:14.680
Yeah, not great.

845
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:16.760
Not great?

846
01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:18.600
So what would it be?

847
01:04:19.200 --> 01:04:20.040
Because I would say as well,

848
01:04:20.040 --> 01:04:22.720
those are three marker points, right?

849
01:04:22.720 --> 01:04:24.680
There are three marker points along a spectrum

850
01:04:24.680 --> 01:04:25.600
and on a longer journey,

851
01:04:25.600 --> 01:04:29.680
and you don't like live specifically in one of them,

852
01:04:29.680 --> 01:04:32.160
you live somewhere and both of you

853
01:04:32.160 --> 01:04:34.240
might be a little bit passive aggressive

854
01:04:34.240 --> 01:04:35.520
and both of you might be a little bit

855
01:04:35.520 --> 01:04:36.960
domineering in different areas.

856
01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:39.560
So it's not just one, you know,

857
01:04:39.560 --> 01:04:41.440
like it's not just like a straight line.

858
01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:42.680
It's not clear cut.

859
01:04:42.680 --> 01:04:45.680
You could have moments and spaces

860
01:04:45.680 --> 01:04:47.760
where you really both are powerful people,

861
01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:49.840
but in other areas, it could be a mess.

862
01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:53.440
Can I say something?

863
01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:55.200
Yeah, please do.

864
01:04:55.200 --> 01:04:57.880
I guess it's come sort of back to just trying to think,

865
01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:00.640
it's very right that you said we're sort of floating.

866
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.640
in on that spectrum somewhat and it's probably depends on the mood and the day we had and the

867
01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:11.040
kids and I don't know what but I guess that's where it's about learning the other person well

868
01:05:11.040 --> 01:05:16.800
and reading the other person well and then and give and take I guess really isn't it to to just

869
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:24.480
know I guess with Alana's story of knowing that you know her strengths or weakness of what she

870
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:31.360
goes for when what she needs kind of thing and and learning that process is just takes time

871
01:05:32.160 --> 01:05:37.440
it's nothing that happens overnight man and I guess so beside me are 20 years married this year

872
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:44.560
and yeah man I mean we were very much like that we got into our night driving way after

873
01:05:44.560 --> 01:05:51.840
wedding is like oh my gosh how are we gonna do this it was 5 a.m 5 a.m it was crazy we're like

874
01:05:51.840 --> 01:06:00.080
well totally tired madness in Germany and so that was wild but it was called the same time

875
01:06:00.080 --> 01:06:04.080
and freaky I don't know it was the whole combination but it was worth it really to

876
01:06:04.080 --> 01:06:10.080
to do like that and another thing for beginning of this conversation we I think it's important

877
01:06:10.080 --> 01:06:18.080
regarding the issue with porn what you shared is a real just keeping each other really accountable

878
01:06:18.080 --> 01:06:24.000
and also talking to the kids really well about it I think there's too much hush hush even in this

879
01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:29.360
culture in New Zealand it's really strange but I'm from a liberal country Germany's very liberal

880
01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:34.800
it's very much everything sort out in the open and even normal nakedness is everyone goes in

881
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:39.440
change room it gets changed no worries there's no big deal covering anything up while I find it

882
01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:46.800
in New Zealand is quite subdued or it's very like oh don't look at me oh it's like weird and so it's

883
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:53.440
nearly something that just to keep it real natural as well I find not so everything is in hidden you

884
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:58.720
know everything is in hiding so that's sometimes a problem as well and have the right to look at

885
01:06:58.720 --> 01:07:05.040
phones even you know one another is a married couple of computers so just be really open about

886
01:07:05.040 --> 01:07:14.800
it too yeah um that's um hang on just replying to jewels and the comments as well um

887
01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:23.520
okay so um

888
01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:32.320
thanks for thanks for sharing that with anything else like cat I um I just feel like it'd be cool

889
01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:35.520
just to hear a little bit more of your story is there anything else you'd be keen to share on like

890
01:07:35.520 --> 01:07:46.000
how things are going or like we're at um I think we are so just trying to think well I feel our

891
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:51.680
marriage is quite healthy when it comes to sexuality um we never had a stint of no sex

892
01:07:51.680 --> 01:07:58.480
I don't think but then I can't put the real thing on it why why it was pretty Simon is very generous

893
01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:03.680
I think he's he's when he gets the vibe I'm not really into it he's oh well sweet let's go sleep

894
01:08:03.680 --> 01:08:10.320
and then other times when when I think oh yeah he's like it's he's very more accommodating I think

895
01:08:11.040 --> 01:08:16.640
yeah then what I might be in some way I show probably quite quick enough sleeping it's like

896
01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:23.520
okay and um and so probably also after probably having babies there was probably some sort of

897
01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:28.720
but I get that and I totally understand I think both of us understood that sort of issue to that

898
01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:36.880
but um I really wish to see more couples being really open about having an issue like I definitely

899
01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:44.080
sort of working in church setting and you know there's the typical once a year decent shocking

900
01:08:44.080 --> 01:08:50.960
sermon that people come up yes I have an issue and that is like one conversation and then wait

901
01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:57.439
another year maybe some other person comes up with that issue and I think having worked in YWAM

902
01:08:57.439 --> 01:09:05.040
for many years where we have a lordship day and just about 100% confess issues with porn

903
01:09:05.920 --> 01:09:13.279
or some sexual you know not not pure or not you know under submission to the lord or whatever

904
01:09:14.240 --> 01:09:20.960
it's to me it's like not surprised I don't know it's it's it's really sad but finding a good way

905
01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:26.800
of communicating it well and putting it on the open to make a difference and to like Cy Rogers

906
01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:33.680
was awesome he was actually really good in that area so good so I think he was such a trailblazer

907
01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:39.120
and yeah and it's true here's one thing which I thought was very good he said the church doesn't

908
01:09:39.120 --> 01:09:45.520
even know where they stand they can't communicate it it's a problem really so if you can't so people

909
01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:53.040
go somewhere else and then might not get get God's point of view on it or his his freedom in it

910
01:09:53.040 --> 01:09:59.840
really yeah isn't it I could back to Benji what you said about you know um powerful people

911
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:03.640
communication is huge, really, isn't it?

912
01:10:03.640 --> 01:10:06.360
And I have to communicate with myself first

913
01:10:06.360 --> 01:10:08.720
to know what I want, which takes time,

914
01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:11.480
as Alana has said, you have to sit with it

915
01:10:11.480 --> 01:10:13.040
or find out what you want.

916
01:10:13.040 --> 01:10:15.520
It's not always instant, you know?

917
01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:19.480
And then to be brave and communicate that.

918
01:10:19.480 --> 01:10:24.200
And as, you know, I love Benji, you saying the phrase,

919
01:10:24.200 --> 01:10:26.400
good, give good information.

920
01:10:26.400 --> 01:10:28.720
That was great, yeah.

921
01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:33.600
That's huge, that whole dynamic.

922
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:35.600
So we'll come back to all of those.

923
01:10:35.600 --> 01:10:37.200
I feel like there's lots of threads there

924
01:10:37.200 --> 01:10:38.680
which we'll come back to,

925
01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:42.240
but probably I wanted to bring this one up.

926
01:10:42.240 --> 01:10:44.640
How's porn being for people in marriage?

927
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:46.440
Like, has it been an issue?

928
01:10:46.440 --> 01:10:49.720
Is an issue, not an issue?

929
01:10:49.720 --> 01:10:50.560
Where's that been?

930
01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.640
We've seen that, you know, over 50% of pastors

931
01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:54.600
in the States, when we looked at the stats,

932
01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:59.640
have been, you know, regularly consuming porn.

933
01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:02.640
Is that impacting other people's relationships here?

934
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:04.680
What's the porn journey been like?

935
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:08.840
And I'm sure it shared some of ours earlier,

936
01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:11.640
but how about, what's happening for you guys?

937
01:11:11.640 --> 01:11:13.160
It's been a challenging one.

938
01:11:13.160 --> 01:11:16.200
I'll be completely transparent here with this.

939
01:11:16.200 --> 01:11:17.040
Yeah.

940
01:11:17.040 --> 01:11:19.840
It's a current struggle.

941
01:11:19.840 --> 01:11:24.440
It's not a, like, deep in the dungeons of hardcore stuff.

942
01:11:25.360 --> 01:11:27.960
It's not like that, but it is something,

943
01:11:27.960 --> 01:11:29.760
and it's something that we communicate,

944
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:31.320
we've communicated about.

945
01:11:34.040 --> 01:11:37.480
It is something that I speak with the Lord about.

946
01:11:37.480 --> 01:11:40.560
And, you know, I'm not sure where my mindset is

947
01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:44.600
as far as, it's like getting caught up

948
01:11:44.600 --> 01:11:49.480
into a thought of, you know, why is this an issue?

949
01:11:49.480 --> 01:11:50.920
Why is this still an issue?

950
01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:55.920
And what's the reason that nothing is working?

951
01:11:56.200 --> 01:11:57.360
Because I've tried a lot of stuff.

952
01:11:57.360 --> 01:12:02.360
And yeah, so I just will be very transparent

953
01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:05.360
and honest about it because it's still something

954
01:12:05.360 --> 01:12:09.880
that's a struggle for us, for me, anyway.

955
01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:16.880
Can I, have you listened to Sir Roger's

956
01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:20.600
Sir Roger's Teachings Go Three-Part Teaching

957
01:12:20.600 --> 01:12:22.840
that's called Keeping Clean in a Dirty World?

958
01:12:24.320 --> 01:12:25.640
I haven't heard of it, no.

959
01:12:25.640 --> 01:12:26.480
I'll write it down.

960
01:12:26.480 --> 01:12:31.440
Usually, I, okay, so I don't struggle with porn,

961
01:12:31.440 --> 01:12:34.640
but I don't know if anyone's heard,

962
01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:37.040
back in the 90s, there was a song

963
01:12:37.040 --> 01:12:40.240
by a bachelorette girl called Buses and Trains.

964
01:12:40.240 --> 01:12:42.200
And there's a line in it, it said,

965
01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:45.720
hey, mom, why don't you warn me?

966
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:48.640
Because about boys is something that I should have known.

967
01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:50.440
They're like chocolate cake, like cigarettes.

968
01:12:50.440 --> 01:12:51.280
I know they're bad for me,

969
01:12:51.280 --> 01:12:52.480
but I just can't leave them alone.

970
01:12:52.480 --> 01:12:53.720
I was like, I listened to this, I was like,

971
01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:57.280
yeah, that's my, yeah, alcohol and boys, man,

972
01:12:57.280 --> 01:13:01.160
like could not leave her alone back in my early days.

973
01:13:01.160 --> 01:13:06.160
And I really, really struggled, really, really struggled.

974
01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:13.560
And I asked the Lord, I said, Lord, you have to get me,

975
01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:15.040
you have to set me free from this

976
01:13:15.320 --> 01:13:16.840
because I can't.

977
01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:20.160
And I was at a friend of mine's house

978
01:13:20.160 --> 01:13:24.200
and I was looking at them through some of the stuff.

979
01:13:25.120 --> 01:13:27.480
And I came across this teaching by Simon Rogers

980
01:13:27.480 --> 01:13:29.440
and it's called Keeping Clean.

981
01:13:29.440 --> 01:13:32.240
Now he talks about his struggle

982
01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:38.760
with breaking these thoughts

983
01:13:40.120 --> 01:13:42.480
that just kept on pounding his head.

984
01:13:42.480 --> 01:13:44.040
And you know, we've all had them,

985
01:13:44.080 --> 01:13:44.920
whether it be sexuality,

986
01:13:44.920 --> 01:13:45.960
whether it be something else,

987
01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:49.440
we've all had thoughts that keep on pounding our heads.

988
01:13:49.440 --> 01:13:52.800
And you try to push it away and come straight back at ya.

989
01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:55.080
Keep the push away, come straight back at ya.

990
01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:01.000
And so what he taught was to admit and submit.

991
01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:06.520
And so he said, it was really powerful.

992
01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:09.280
He said, instead of trying to push these thoughts away,

993
01:14:11.360 --> 01:14:13.360
the Bible says, take your thoughts captive

994
01:14:13.360 --> 01:14:16.400
and bring them under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

995
01:14:16.400 --> 01:14:18.280
And so he said, well, what does that mean?

996
01:14:18.280 --> 01:14:20.880
How do you do that?

997
01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:23.320
And it's like, okay, first of all, you admit it,

998
01:14:23.320 --> 01:14:24.360
take hold of it.

999
01:14:24.360 --> 01:14:26.760
And instead of trying to push it out of the way,

1000
01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:28.920
bring it before the Lord.

1001
01:14:30.120 --> 01:14:33.040
He said, Lord, look at what I'm thinking.

1002
01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:34.800
Yeah, help.

1003
01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:38.200
I want this, but I want you more, help me.

1004
01:14:38.200 --> 01:14:41.160
And he said, he'd done that every single time

1005
01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:43.760
those thoughts came into his mind.

1006
01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:46.120
And he said, but because when you bring it,

1007
01:14:46.120 --> 01:14:48.000
when you admit it before the Lord,

1008
01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:49.720
I mean, he knows it's here anyway.

1009
01:14:51.400 --> 01:14:55.680
Straight away, you're not,

1010
01:14:55.680 --> 01:14:59.240
it's his Lordship that brings the power

1011
01:14:59.240 --> 01:15:00.640
because you're bringing it.

1012
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:05.440
under his lordship and you're not doing it in your own strength anymore and there's no shame

1013
01:15:05.440 --> 01:15:10.160
because you've admitted it so you're not fighting it in your own strength anymore and he said at

1014
01:15:10.160 --> 01:15:15.840
first that was a struggle but then after doing that time and time again he said eventually it

1015
01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:23.120
was like squatting flies and so that was the three-part series teaching that i listened to

1016
01:15:24.080 --> 01:15:31.920
um and it really it helped me um deal with thoughts that in my head that shouldn't be there

1017
01:15:32.640 --> 01:15:34.720
so yeah i'd recommend that to you

1018
01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:41.760
rogers keeping clean

1019
01:15:43.760 --> 01:15:51.040
yes why rogers he's a real genius um his background is homosexuality but he's a married

1020
01:15:51.040 --> 01:16:01.200
man now with kids and he still speaks with the gay accent um he's hilarious it's funny and he's

1021
01:16:01.200 --> 01:16:09.600
a genius so yeah he's passed away do you know that has he died no way last year oh well sorry

1022
01:16:10.400 --> 01:16:14.160
not bear of good news here but it's really interesting

1023
01:16:14.880 --> 01:16:20.880
i didn't know someone else has to go pick up this mantle what was that cat someone else has to go

1024
01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:28.960
pick up that mantle yeah run with it yeah um another thing that i think that um actually in

1025
01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:36.240
the book oh i'll have we'll have to cover this um in one of the next ones coming up but in the book

1026
01:16:36.240 --> 01:16:43.360
i give my top three tips on masturbation which is always an interesting it's always interesting

1027
01:16:43.360 --> 01:16:49.680
when you you know the past this is right guys um i'm thinking about doing this message for a youth

1028
01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:55.280
group that's asking me to speak um i think it'd be pretty funny to to do a message on

1029
01:16:56.080 --> 01:17:02.800
my top three tips for masturbation but one of the good headline yeah i know right it's all about a

1030
01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:12.640
good headline good title um one of the dynamics like my first thing that i would say about

1031
01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:21.440
masturbation is just avoid it so the and it's not even because i think masturbation is a bad thing

1032
01:17:21.440 --> 01:17:27.200
right it's the same as when my kids choose a bad attitude or a good attitude like it's easier for

1033
01:17:27.200 --> 01:17:31.840
them usually to choose a bad attitude you know they can kind of just default to that but it's

1034
01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:35.440
harder for them to choose a good attitude sometimes for us as well you know like majority of time

1035
01:17:35.440 --> 01:17:41.360
it's you gotta it's it's that but it's a mental part of the game as well so there's the spiritual

1036
01:17:41.360 --> 01:17:50.640
dynamics there's the mental dynamics and i think that with you know um choices little choices every

1037
01:17:50.640 --> 01:17:56.560
time we make a little choice it starts actually building the neurological pathways in our brain

1038
01:17:56.560 --> 01:18:02.960
so if you've got you know if you've struggled with porn a bunch in the past then you've got

1039
01:18:02.960 --> 01:18:07.360
neurological pathways that it's a rut it's like a superhighway it's going to just run you straight

1040
01:18:07.360 --> 01:18:12.320
down that that road so you kind of the moment you kind of step into that space and shoof you know

1041
01:18:12.320 --> 01:18:17.280
like the same with any type of habit or if we've got a type of reflex or anything where it's like

1042
01:18:17.280 --> 01:18:21.520
oh we've kind of created this rut in our brain where it's going to be a superhighway you put me

1043
01:18:21.520 --> 01:18:31.600
in that environment i'll react like this um oh yeah cool thanks for dropping that um so um

1044
01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:38.080
um one of the things that's why you know with raising royalty that's why one of our anthems

1045
01:18:38.080 --> 01:18:44.080
anthems is we do hard things because it's the just what we do on the daily right it's what we do on

1046
01:18:44.080 --> 01:18:50.240
the daily that rebuilds new pathways so like a cool well i'm going to build it i'm going to build

1047
01:18:50.240 --> 01:18:57.520
a new pathway and i'm going to so um and that's by making those hard choices consistently as well so

1048
01:18:57.520 --> 01:19:03.520
it's like it's a whole bunch of things going there in terms of getting free um from things

1049
01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:10.000
but i think we'll kind of wrap it up there for today it's been a good little chat um we're just

1050
01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:15.440
scratching the surface really i feel like this conversation can go in so many different directions

1051
01:19:16.240 --> 01:19:22.080
as well so i think we'll just i do want to just kind of like see if anyone had anything else they

1052
01:19:22.080 --> 01:19:28.320
wanted to drop in there before we close it up and i wanted to try to just um get back to jules

1053
01:19:28.320 --> 01:19:36.400
as well so jules says my husband doesn't see our marriage isn't connected emotionally so i think

1054
01:19:36.400 --> 01:19:42.320
you're saying jules that you and then she says we just live together as companions i have a lonely

1055
01:19:42.320 --> 01:19:48.640
marriage so grateful for jesus so that's that's a crazy hard place who's who's felt lonely in

1056
01:19:48.640 --> 01:19:56.480
their marriage before yeah yeah me both i'm there yeah so um live together as companions

1057
01:19:57.280 --> 01:19:59.840
a lonely marriage grateful for jesus who's there

1058
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:05.280
but a husband that doesn't see that the marriage isn't emotionally connected.

1059
01:20:05.280 --> 01:20:07.200
That's a kind of a crazy thing as well there.

1060
01:20:07.200 --> 01:20:11.760
It's like, if the light within you is darkness, then how great is that darkness?

1061
01:20:12.640 --> 01:20:14.800
So basically what Jesus was saying when he said that,

1062
01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:18.800
is that if you can't tell you've got a problem, you've got a massive problem.

1063
01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:22.400
If you can tell you've got a problem, it's not that bad,

1064
01:20:22.400 --> 01:20:24.480
but it's when you can't tell that you've got a problem,

1065
01:20:24.480 --> 01:20:26.640
that it's a really, really big problem.

1066
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:29.200
And that's where we were for so long.

1067
01:20:29.200 --> 01:20:30.720
So I couldn't tell that I was the issue.

1068
01:20:35.280 --> 01:20:38.800
Yeah, so I think that for Jules,

1069
01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:48.320
I think that's really a challenging place to be.

1070
01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:51.280
Kriker, what can you say there,

1071
01:20:51.280 --> 01:20:54.240
other than the fact that that's where we were for so long?

1072
01:20:57.200 --> 01:21:01.600
Yeah, and at that point, it could have gone either way.

1073
01:21:03.760 --> 01:21:07.040
If Benji had never come to the realizations he did,

1074
01:21:07.040 --> 01:21:08.320
we wouldn't be married now.

1075
01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:15.040
Can I ask, it's like you were saying before,

1076
01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:21.520
like in a marriage, you can't work harder than the other person.

1077
01:21:22.320 --> 01:21:30.800
But I guess, you know, we serve a God of hope and prayer is powerful.

1078
01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:36.800
But I guess, you know, it is that time of question,

1079
01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:38.800
actually, you know, how far is too far?

1080
01:21:38.800 --> 01:21:39.840
How long is too long?

1081
01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:43.120
And I think that's only...

1082
01:21:43.120 --> 01:21:45.200
We need to know whether the breakthrough is coming or not.

1083
01:21:46.080 --> 01:21:48.720
Yeah, that's a good question for Dave Riddell.

1084
01:21:48.960 --> 01:21:54.800
And there were times where I suppose that one was working harder than the other,

1085
01:21:54.800 --> 01:21:56.400
that we were both willing to work.

1086
01:21:56.400 --> 01:21:57.920
I think that's what I'm saying about that,

1087
01:21:57.920 --> 01:22:00.880
is you both have to be willing to work to make it work.

1088
01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:04.560
If you've got one party in a marriage that is not willing to work,

1089
01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:09.520
the other person can't carry the marriage by themselves,

1090
01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:11.120
at least not for too long.

1091
01:22:11.120 --> 01:22:15.760
Well, what they can do is they can do the normal Christian dysfunctional marriage,

1092
01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:18.080
dysfunctional marriage, right?

1093
01:22:18.720 --> 01:22:20.080
That's what you can do, right?

1094
01:22:20.080 --> 01:22:23.200
When you've got two people, one person who's willing to hold on

1095
01:22:24.160 --> 01:22:26.160
and the other person who's not willing to budge,

1096
01:22:26.880 --> 01:22:31.360
then you can create the normal Christian dysfunctional marriage,

1097
01:22:31.360 --> 01:22:36.080
which is all sorts of mess.

1098
01:22:36.080 --> 01:22:37.440
Another one's thriving.

1099
01:22:38.480 --> 01:22:44.800
And there's like the whole blueprint of what marriage is supposed to look like,

1100
01:22:45.120 --> 01:22:45.920
has been lost.

1101
01:22:47.280 --> 01:22:55.200
Yeah, I guess the battle that I've had back and forth in my head so many times is,

1102
01:22:56.000 --> 01:23:01.040
okay, dysfunctional marriage, not good.

1103
01:23:01.760 --> 01:23:05.120
We've got two kids aged three and seven,

1104
01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:11.440
so the damage of a broken marriage on the kids, also not good.

1105
01:23:12.400 --> 01:23:14.960
It's like, you kind of feel like you're screwed if you're dead,

1106
01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:16.080
if you're screwed if you don't.

1107
01:23:18.080 --> 01:23:23.200
Yeah, I think that what we're actually experiencing in a lot of our marriages is,

1108
01:23:24.400 --> 01:23:29.680
and a big part of it is actually like the cultural context that we live in.

1109
01:23:29.680 --> 01:23:33.840
Even just the Christian, if you look at like Christian history,

1110
01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:38.320
of where we are in terms of the mindsets in the church that condition us

1111
01:23:39.120 --> 01:23:42.560
to accept the blueprint or whatever that we have.

1112
01:23:44.080 --> 01:23:49.040
I'm not trying to give anyone a free pass here and say,

1113
01:23:49.040 --> 01:23:50.480
oh, yeah, it's not your fault.

1114
01:23:50.480 --> 01:23:53.840
All I'm trying to highlight is there's some big things at play here

1115
01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:57.840
in terms of cultural infrastructure mindsets

1116
01:23:57.840 --> 01:24:00.400
around what marriage is supposed to look like.

1117
01:24:00.400 --> 01:24:03.280
And that's one of the things that I'm really trying to address in the book,

1118
01:24:03.840 --> 01:24:11.600
is that one of the things I'm really trying to address in the book

1119
01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:13.520
is that the blueprint for marriage

1120
01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:18.480
between what is accepted as a normal Christian marriage

1121
01:24:18.480 --> 01:24:22.960
versus what God intended for a normal marriage to look like,

1122
01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:24.000
they're so different.

1123
01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:26.880
Because the normal marriage that God is trying to look like

1124
01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:28.960
is where there's two powerful people.

1125
01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:31.680
So good luck trying to find that for a start with, right?

1126
01:24:32.320 --> 01:24:37.120
Two powerful people who are both completely devoted

1127
01:24:37.120 --> 01:24:44.800
to satisfying the other person's wants, needs, dreams, and desires.

1128
01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:47.440
And they're devoted to giving the other person

1129
01:24:47.440 --> 01:24:50.720
what they want, when they want, and how they like it.

1130
01:24:50.720 --> 01:24:52.240
And it's totally mutual.

1131
01:24:52.240 --> 01:24:57.440
And in that place, they're both completely devoted

1132
01:24:57.440 --> 01:24:59.840
to becoming the world X.

1133
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:08.160
expert on how to satisfy the wants, needs, desires, hopes, dreams of each other.

1134
01:25:08.160 --> 01:25:13.840
So this is like, and in that, you know, like if there's challenges, then they communicate

1135
01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:15.400
like powerful people.

1136
01:25:15.400 --> 01:25:23.560
If they have missed, they use healthy boundaries to bring themselves back to intimacy.

1137
01:25:23.560 --> 01:25:28.580
But there's like this beautiful dynamic in the relationship that actually becomes the

1138
01:25:28.580 --> 01:25:35.060
greatest picture of what heaven on earth actually looks like, where it's actually one

1139
01:25:35.060 --> 01:25:40.940
of the greatest expressions of mirroring the divine dance that the Father, the Son, and

1140
01:25:40.940 --> 01:25:42.860
the Holy Spirit experience.

1141
01:25:42.860 --> 01:25:44.460
And we capture that.

1142
01:25:44.460 --> 01:25:50.880
And then we actually, we mirror it in our marriage relationship.

1143
01:25:50.880 --> 01:25:52.700
And I think this is what God wants.

1144
01:25:52.700 --> 01:25:58.660
And it's so, because it's mirrored after the fellowship of the Trinity, it's radically

1145
01:25:58.660 --> 01:26:00.520
extravagant love.

1146
01:26:00.520 --> 01:26:02.900
It's so outrageous.

1147
01:26:02.900 --> 01:26:04.540
It's so limitless.

1148
01:26:04.540 --> 01:26:05.540
It's so laid down.

1149
01:26:05.540 --> 01:26:06.540
It's so selfless.

1150
01:26:06.540 --> 01:26:14.020
And it's just so overwhelming delight, but it's also so reciprocal.

1151
01:26:14.020 --> 01:26:16.420
It's not like there's no tension in it.

1152
01:26:16.420 --> 01:26:17.420
It's a dance.

1153
01:26:17.420 --> 01:26:18.420
It's beautiful.

1154
01:26:18.420 --> 01:26:24.980
It's like, wow, so harmonious and glorious, and it leaves both people completely overwhelmed

1155
01:26:24.980 --> 01:26:30.460
and undone and exhilarated and just like, wow, this is wild.

1156
01:26:30.460 --> 01:26:35.460
So I'm like, that's one of the things that I'm trying to get back to is because so many

1157
01:26:35.460 --> 01:26:37.500
people are just disappointed in their marriages.

1158
01:26:37.500 --> 01:26:41.180
You know, you've got so many pastors that are disappointed.

1159
01:26:41.180 --> 01:26:45.660
I have put my book out, it's just come out, and the first thing that I'm getting is pastors

1160
01:26:45.660 --> 01:26:49.860
in tears saying, it's our marriage.

1161
01:26:49.860 --> 01:26:55.340
And then so what we have is just like this culture of disappointment and dysfunction

1162
01:26:55.340 --> 01:26:59.300
in marriage, where occasionally you get someone who's doing really well, but everyone's kind

1163
01:26:59.300 --> 01:27:03.940
of too shy to figure out and talk about what's actually working or everyone appears they're

1164
01:27:03.940 --> 01:27:04.940
doing well.

1165
01:27:04.940 --> 01:27:05.940
Oh, yeah.

1166
01:27:05.940 --> 01:27:09.300
And then the people who look like you're doing well, and I've got a great sex life, but they're

1167
01:27:09.300 --> 01:27:15.020
actually divorced now, because there was other things going on that you didn't know about.

1168
01:27:15.380 --> 01:27:19.820
So I guess that's one of the things I'm really trying to address and highlight is actually

1169
01:27:19.820 --> 01:27:22.380
that type of marriage isn't just possible.

1170
01:27:22.380 --> 01:27:30.820
That's what marriage will look like as a norm when there's a sonship reformation taking

1171
01:27:30.820 --> 01:27:32.220
place in the earth right now.

1172
01:27:32.220 --> 01:27:36.540
And when marriage, like when the identity shift takes place in the church, which shifts

1173
01:27:36.540 --> 01:27:44.380
from orphan to son, then we're going to start seeing marriages like this, like redefine normal.

1174
01:27:44.380 --> 01:27:45.380
Yeah.

1175
01:27:45.380 --> 01:27:46.380
Yeah.

1176
01:27:46.380 --> 01:27:47.380
Yeah.

1177
01:27:47.380 --> 01:27:48.380
Yeah.

1178
01:27:48.380 --> 01:27:49.380
Yeah.

1179
01:27:49.380 --> 01:27:50.380
Yeah.

1180
01:27:50.380 --> 01:27:51.380
Yeah.

1181
01:27:51.380 --> 01:27:52.380
Yeah.

1182
01:27:52.380 --> 01:27:53.380
Yeah.

1183
01:27:53.380 --> 01:27:54.380
Yeah.

1184
01:27:54.380 --> 01:27:55.380
Yeah.

1185
01:27:55.380 --> 01:27:56.380
Yeah.

1186
01:27:56.380 --> 01:27:57.380
Yeah.

1187
01:27:57.380 --> 01:27:58.380
Yeah.

1188
01:27:58.380 --> 01:27:59.380
Yeah.

1189
01:27:59.380 --> 01:28:00.380
Yeah.

1190
01:28:00.380 --> 01:28:01.380
Yeah.

1191
01:28:01.380 --> 01:28:02.380
Yeah.

1192
01:28:02.380 --> 01:28:03.380
I've got just a little press report based on last week's Friday.

1193
01:28:03.380 --> 01:28:04.380
When you guys, what was the question?

1194
01:28:04.380 --> 01:28:05.380
Was like, I wish something, something.

1195
01:28:05.380 --> 01:28:06.380
I don't know.

1196
01:28:06.380 --> 01:28:07.380
It was that kind of statement.

1197
01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:08.380
And I thought, and I knew I had mentioned it.

1198
01:28:08.380 --> 01:28:09.380
I'd like Simon to be more proactive with organizing a date.

1199
01:28:09.380 --> 01:28:10.380
Anyway.

1200
01:28:10.380 --> 01:28:13.900
So after a day or so, I was like, okay, I actually got to tell him that because that's not right

1201
01:28:14.420 --> 01:28:17.420
for me just to say that to you guys and not actually tell him that.

1202
01:28:17.420 --> 01:28:18.420
Yes.

1203
01:28:18.420 --> 01:28:19.420
Good information.

1204
01:28:19.420 --> 01:28:20.420
Yes.

1205
01:28:20.420 --> 01:28:24.420
He fully took her on board and we're off to Auckland next week.

1206
01:28:24.420 --> 01:28:25.420
Woohoo.

1207
01:28:25.420 --> 01:28:26.420
Oh, come on.

1208
01:28:26.420 --> 01:28:27.420
That's a small day.

1209
01:28:27.420 --> 01:28:28.420
You're organizing.

1210
01:28:28.420 --> 01:28:29.420
It's just like, oh, okay.

1211
01:28:29.420 --> 01:28:30.420
I'll do that.

1212
01:28:30.420 --> 01:28:31.420
No worries.

1213
01:28:31.420 --> 01:28:36.620
So it's like, uh, easy answer, potentially, but I haven't obviously really communicated

1214
01:28:36.620 --> 01:28:37.620
it.

1215
01:28:37.620 --> 01:28:41.420
And just a little press report, things, there's fruit here, people.

1216
01:28:41.420 --> 01:28:42.420
That's great.

1217
01:28:42.940 --> 01:28:46.940
And he will experience the full weight of your gratitude.

1218
01:28:46.940 --> 01:28:49.940
And when you're in Auckland, it'll be awesome.

1219
01:28:49.940 --> 01:28:50.940
Yeah.

1220
01:28:50.940 --> 01:28:51.940
Good.

1221
01:28:51.940 --> 01:28:59.940
Um, so I just wanted to really, um, uh, validate, I guess what Jules is sharing in the comments

1222
01:28:59.940 --> 01:29:00.940
as well.

1223
01:29:00.940 --> 01:29:01.940
So, yeah, yeah.

1224
01:29:01.940 --> 01:29:06.940
But I just wanted to, I just really want to validate, um, you there Jules, we see you,

1225
01:29:06.940 --> 01:29:09.940
we hear you and our love goes out to you.

1226
01:29:10.460 --> 01:29:17.460
I know that that is a challenging space, um, where you're in, um, but lots and lots of

1227
01:29:17.460 --> 01:29:21.460
love to you, uh, yeah, in this process.

1228
01:29:21.460 --> 01:29:24.460
So let's just, let's kind of keep journeying together.

1229
01:29:24.460 --> 01:29:28.460
Um, we'll be seeing you guys again next week, which will be fun.

1230
01:29:28.460 --> 01:29:29.460
Thanks for the time.

1231
01:29:29.460 --> 01:29:33.460
I was gonna, I try, I was gonna try really hard to keep it to an hour, but an hour just

1232
01:29:33.460 --> 01:29:34.460
evaporates.

1233
01:29:34.460 --> 01:29:35.460
So it's been an hour and a half.

1234
01:29:35.460 --> 01:29:36.460
We just have such good conversation.

1235
01:29:36.460 --> 01:29:37.460
It's quite cool.

1236
01:29:37.980 --> 01:29:41.980
I think that we don't talk about it and I think people want to talk about it.

1237
01:29:41.980 --> 01:29:46.980
And I know whenever I talk to my friends, we actually all have the same issues.

1238
01:29:46.980 --> 01:29:50.980
No one talks about it, whether it's marriage or something else.

1239
01:29:50.980 --> 01:29:53.980
And it's nice to know that you're not on an island.

1240
01:29:53.980 --> 01:29:54.980
Yeah.

1241
01:29:54.980 --> 01:29:55.980
Yeah.

1242
01:29:55.980 --> 01:29:59.980
So we might not have, um, we might not have brought heaps of specific.

1243
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:05.280
answers or resolutions I think today to people we've kind of just kind of

1244
01:30:05.280 --> 01:30:15.680
bounced around but I hope it's been interesting we might we'll see we'll

1245
01:30:15.680 --> 01:30:23.360
probably still do something yeah Janice how you doing we didn't hear

1246
01:30:23.360 --> 01:30:27.600
from you but it's wonderful to have you with us yes thank you I had a have fun

1247
01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:32.880
really late because I wanted I have a couple of real quick things I wanted to

1248
01:30:32.880 --> 01:30:40.640
share number one is about the both people being able to you know surrender

1249
01:30:40.640 --> 01:30:45.800
and do as you as you're saying I was only married for five years and that's

1250
01:30:45.800 --> 01:30:50.240
the dynamic that I was facing I was doing all the work I was doing all the

1251
01:30:50.240 --> 01:30:55.500
you know surrendering and praying and everything and when I was faced with

1252
01:30:55.500 --> 01:31:00.420
that when it came time to get the divorce and everything and there was all

1253
01:31:00.420 --> 01:31:05.220
like you said all of that Christian ease guilt and everything getting divorced as

1254
01:31:05.220 --> 01:31:10.420
a Christian and and I the war every time I prayed the Holy Spirit just kept

1255
01:31:10.420 --> 01:31:16.860
saying to me I will never leave you or forsake you whatever you decide I am

1256
01:31:16.860 --> 01:31:22.820
with you and that was just what helped me and carried me through because for

1257
01:31:22.820 --> 01:31:28.380
the sake of my children and for my own sake the divorce was the healthier

1258
01:31:28.380 --> 01:31:34.420
choice definitely for us and and that same went along for a friend of mine was

1259
01:31:34.420 --> 01:31:37.900
kind of the opposite she dug her heels in and said I'm a Christian I'm not

1260
01:31:37.900 --> 01:31:44.100
getting a divorce if he wants to get the divorce then fine and it was like 12 15

1261
01:31:44.100 --> 01:31:49.160
years before he finally did it and then she was too old to have children and she

1262
01:31:49.160 --> 01:31:54.160
was like he was just so bitter and purposely doing that so now I can I'm

1263
01:31:54.160 --> 01:31:57.280
too old to have children and I can never have children and everything it was just

1264
01:31:57.280 --> 01:32:02.600
like this like really deep bitterness and woundedness it's so sad to see just

1265
01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:06.680
because of the religious spirit that oh you're a Christian you can't get a

1266
01:32:06.680 --> 01:32:11.400
divorce not that I'm propagating get a divorce to everybody I'm not saying that

1267
01:32:11.400 --> 01:32:17.080
but you know just what agreeing with what Benji is saying and how sad it is

1268
01:32:17.080 --> 01:32:22.600
in the church that that element is there and it you know we need to see

1269
01:32:22.600 --> 01:32:28.440
that that change but I was wondering too if I'm at the end if when everybody gets

1270
01:32:28.440 --> 01:32:31.840
off and stuff if you could just pray for my friend Kathy I just found out tonight

1271
01:32:31.840 --> 01:32:38.760
that's why I didn't get on in times that the doctors say she has a week to live

1272
01:32:38.760 --> 01:32:44.920
the most if that and just you know we're trying to really believe for a miracle

1273
01:32:44.920 --> 01:32:49.120
we've been praying for her for two weeks it came out like so suddenly

1274
01:32:49.120 --> 01:32:54.200
cancer and kidney failure and everything so if everybody can say a prayer for her

1275
01:32:54.200 --> 01:32:59.400
tonight I'd appreciate that too thanks thanks very much and then the question

1276
01:32:59.400 --> 01:33:03.400
everyone's wondering this whole time Janice is how how are things going with

1277
01:33:03.400 --> 01:33:12.400
you and porn porn oh no I've never I've had troubles with lust and with other

1278
01:33:12.440 --> 01:33:18.320
things but I didn't have porn no I never I never really got into that but I got

1279
01:33:18.320 --> 01:33:24.960
into fantasizing just in my mind but not looking at porn okay so you didn't you

1280
01:33:24.960 --> 01:33:30.640
didn't watch things but you just had things happening in your mind yeah and

1281
01:33:30.640 --> 01:33:37.560
for a while for a long time there for a season when I was younger I didn't

1282
01:33:37.560 --> 01:33:45.320
really need porn because I was with men so I was really a bad girl so yeah I was

1283
01:33:45.320 --> 01:33:50.280
yeah you know I was just like not trying to find it but it was finding me they

1284
01:33:50.280 --> 01:33:58.560
were coming after me so yeah thank God to be delivered yeah cool thanks for

1285
01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:06.200
sharing and Dave can we get you to pray for us to wrap wrap it up for today and

1286
01:34:06.920 --> 01:34:14.840
look forward to next week absolutely um oh my father we just love you we thank you we

1287
01:34:14.840 --> 01:34:19.480
just really praise you for your oh just for the way you bring us together to

1288
01:34:19.480 --> 01:34:24.600
talk about such touchy subjects but to know that you are here present with us

1289
01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:28.760
to bring us together to work safe where we can find in our togetherness our

1290
01:34:28.760 --> 01:34:33.560
safety that you have for us always and we just thank you that you've been here

1291
01:34:33.560 --> 01:34:38.920
powerfully today for us to get breakthrough for whatever might be going on we know you're

1292
01:34:38.920 --> 01:34:43.960
there always we know you're here with us and we feel your love we thank you we love you we

1293
01:34:43.960 --> 01:34:50.520
praise you in Jesus name amen amen thank you so much

1294
01:34:52.280 --> 01:34:57.640
Ben one can I just say one last thing like I come at it from the other angle because my ex-husband

1295
01:34:57.640 --> 01:35:00.040
was into porn oh yes

1296
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:02.720
So that was one of the big, yeah, that was one of the big

1297
01:35:02.720 --> 01:35:07.160
issues in our marriage. And for my opinion, from being like on

1298
01:35:07.160 --> 01:35:11.920
the opposite side of the fence with the pornography, that's to

1299
01:35:11.920 --> 01:35:15.440
me, that was like a slap in the face, like you're not, it was

1300
01:35:15.440 --> 01:35:19.440
really bad on my identity. Because you're not good enough.

1301
01:35:19.480 --> 01:35:23.160
I need all these other women in these magazines to satisfy me,

1302
01:35:23.160 --> 01:35:27.720
you're not enough. You know, and so that's the flip side of the

1303
01:35:27.720 --> 01:35:30.960
pornography from the other part, the other part spouse.

1304
01:35:31.760 --> 01:35:33.120
Wow, thanks for sharing that.

1305
01:35:33.200 --> 01:35:36.840
Can I can I interview you for a moment now that you brought that

1306
01:35:36.840 --> 01:35:37.960
up just as we were closing?

1307
01:35:38.560 --> 01:35:39.360
Yeah, sure.

1308
01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:45.800
Um, so how often was your ex involved in porn?

1309
01:35:47.480 --> 01:35:53.080
Um, I have no idea totally, because I just was finding

1310
01:35:53.080 --> 01:35:56.240
magazines hidden in closets and hidden here and there and

1311
01:35:56.720 --> 01:36:00.720
catching him in the act a few times, you know, over the course

1312
01:36:00.720 --> 01:36:03.880
of five years that we were together, but apparently his mom

1313
01:36:03.880 --> 01:36:07.080
told me that he had a problem before we got married. And we

1314
01:36:07.080 --> 01:36:11.040
were so young when we got married. They thought, Oh, once

1315
01:36:11.040 --> 01:36:13.640
he gets married, he'll be fine. Everything will be fine. But

1316
01:36:13.640 --> 01:36:17.440
they kept it a secret. And, you know, it was just totally

1317
01:36:17.440 --> 01:36:21.040
devastating for the both of us, actually, especially for me.

1318
01:36:21.920 --> 01:36:25.960
Yeah. So you don't know how much he was how involved he was,

1319
01:36:25.960 --> 01:36:26.480
was it?

1320
01:36:27.960 --> 01:36:30.360
Yeah, well, back then, I mean, it was in the 80s. So there

1321
01:36:30.360 --> 01:36:33.680
wasn't as much with the internet. It was all magazines.

1322
01:36:34.560 --> 01:36:38.080
Yeah. And then ultimately, he did cheat on me. So physically,

1323
01:36:38.080 --> 01:36:42.920
you know, physically a few times. So just a few times. Yeah.

1324
01:36:43.120 --> 01:36:44.680
How many times did he have a fears?

1325
01:36:46.040 --> 01:36:48.960
Well, it was kind of like one night stand kind of things. It

1326
01:36:48.960 --> 01:36:53.000
was a couple of times that I found out concretely, but I

1327
01:36:53.040 --> 01:36:56.960
suspect there were more. And it was always in his mind. You

1328
01:36:56.960 --> 01:37:01.040
could always tell because he was always, you know, so friendly

1329
01:37:01.040 --> 01:37:03.760
with these young teenage girls all the time.

1330
01:37:05.120 --> 01:37:07.640
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1331
01:37:10.120 --> 01:37:12.440
Good stuff. Good stuff, fam. Well, thank you everyone for

1332
01:37:12.440 --> 01:37:15.720
being vulnerable. Thank you everyone for being real. I know

1333
01:37:15.720 --> 01:37:18.080
we've just kind of opened some cans and opened some

1334
01:37:18.080 --> 01:37:22.680
conversations and not necessarily brought resolution

1335
01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:26.360
or dealt with anything specifically. But I hope that

1336
01:37:26.400 --> 01:37:30.320
it's valuable just in the process and the context and just

1337
01:37:30.320 --> 01:37:35.320
in the atmosphere of being able to chat openly about stuff. And

1338
01:37:35.360 --> 01:37:37.400
you know, I think that, you know, we could spend a long

1339
01:37:37.400 --> 01:37:42.400
time for each of the different things that have come up. But I

1340
01:37:42.400 --> 01:37:45.080
think we'll probably just, you know, not necessarily try and

1341
01:37:45.080 --> 01:37:49.600
fix every everything. But create just create that space of

1342
01:37:49.600 --> 01:37:52.640
vulnerability where we can check things through and we'll

1343
01:37:52.640 --> 01:37:57.880
just trust God that he'll do what he wants to do. And then

1344
01:37:57.880 --> 01:38:00.800
every now and then we'll kind of do like what we've done. And

1345
01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:02.720
some of the other sessions, we've done a bit of a Dr. Phil

1346
01:38:02.720 --> 01:38:04.880
moment where we've kind of highlighted someone and gone on

1347
01:38:04.880 --> 01:38:08.400
that journey and talk through some stuff. But thanks for

1348
01:38:08.400 --> 01:38:12.720
everything today. Love you guys so much. And for those who are

1349
01:38:12.720 --> 01:38:16.120
in the School of Social Media Marketing, we are going to be

1350
01:38:16.120 --> 01:38:21.000
starting the Daily Hard Things Challenge in there as well,

1351
01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:24.800
which is really fun. If you're in the just if you're not in the

1352
01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:29.360
School of Social Media Marketing, today is day 52 of

1353
01:38:29.360 --> 01:38:32.960
the Daily Hard Things Challenge. And that's something that I want

1354
01:38:32.960 --> 01:38:37.280
to really encourage everyone with. I think that is of

1355
01:38:37.280 --> 01:38:41.320
everything that I've ever done, discipleship ways, revival ways,

1356
01:38:41.320 --> 01:38:45.520
miracles, the Daily Hard Things Challenge, I think is producing

1357
01:38:45.520 --> 01:38:48.640
and going to produce more fruit than anything else. So I want to

1358
01:38:48.640 --> 01:38:52.960
really encourage everyone to jump on board with that. And if

1359
01:38:52.960 --> 01:38:56.280
you haven't seen it yet, the session that kind of kickstarts

1360
01:38:56.280 --> 01:39:01.640
that off is in the Open Heaven Masterclass Guide, go to the one

1361
01:39:01.640 --> 01:39:05.640
that says the Foundations for Exponential Growth. You will

1362
01:39:05.640 --> 01:39:08.320
love being a part of the Daily Hard Things Challenge. So if you

1363
01:39:08.360 --> 01:39:11.560
aren't already, then I want to encourage you to jump on board

1364
01:39:11.600 --> 01:39:15.440
with that with us. And if you've got stuff that you like, oh,

1365
01:39:15.440 --> 01:39:21.480
man, and I want to grow in this area of my life, then the Daily

1366
01:39:21.480 --> 01:39:26.120
Hard Things is definitely, you know, that's the space to be if

1367
01:39:26.120 --> 01:39:29.000
you want to be growing. So awesome, man. Bless you. And

1368
01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:29.640
we'll catch you soon.

1369
01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:31.560
Thanks, everybody.

1370
01:39:32.320 --> 01:39:32.840
Thank you.