Yo, yo, I think we are live now, my beautiful friends.
So I just realized that I forgot to drop the link to you here, so here's a Zoom link.
I'm just dropping the Zoom link into the group now for you.
There you go, Zoom link is in the group, yeah, so if you want to jump on board for the Zoom,
you can grab that in the group, let me email it to you right now as well, so you've got
it on email as well. If you're not in the group, I'll just shoot it to you now too so that you
have it on email. But how are you doing? Yeah, we'll just chill out here for a moment while
we wait for people to jump into the Zoom room. I'm just checking in here,
that it's all working, yep, we're live. Yeah, so just click into the Zoom room here, guys.
It's always more fun to do Q&A with people live like that. So yeah, oh, there we go.
People are jumping in here. Excellent, very cool.
Well, yeah, good to have you here, gonna be a fun session.
How are you doing? Feel free to get chatty. Jennifer, good to see you.
I've been here. Tell me about your day, tell me how you're doing today.
Slow start today. Slow start today. Yeah, hard to get out of bed. I mean, it's locked down, it's cold, it's cloudy.
Just staying in bed, eh? That's all right. It's nice if it's...
Hang on a second. Just checking that I've got...
I'm just sending you on that link to just grab the link out of the Zoom room now.
So you guys, I see a couple more of you guys in there on the live. Feel free to jump in here
if you want to. So lockdown for you guys again. What's happened that you guys are back in lockdown?
Someone from... was in quarantine in South Australia, came back home to Victoria
and then discovered he had COVID, but not until he'd been out and about a bit.
And so we've got, I don't know, quite a number of cases, so they're just trying to put a bed on it now.
Yeah, yeah. That's a bit rude, isn't it? A bit rude.
So, yeah, that's the one that I wanted.
And have we got from the people who are watching us on Facebook, have you guys got questions there
ready to go? It's always a little bit trickier to chat with you guys when you're there. So I like
this Zoom room. That's why I'm hanging around here just trying to invite you guys to come join in.
But we've got a couple of the questions that people have asked in the group already, which
we will definitely get to. But then we've also got, yeah, like just drop any questions you've
got now as well. And we can, we can check those all out and we're going to have a bit of fun.
We're going to be wrestling with a pretty deep, deep topic today, but I think it's going to be
pretty awesome.
Cool. So I'll drop those questions here in the comments as well. Jennifer, do you, would you like
to pray for us as we get going? Oh, OK. I guess you don't have many other options, do you?
Yeah, I'm just going to do not disturb my phone first. I just really want to pray for you.
I'm just going to do not disturb my phone first. I just realised that's true.
Oh yeah, go for it.
Well I just thank you for this opportunity to really dig deep
and to to come to know the truth and I just ask for your
spirit of revelation to be honest now so we can see see
you see truth and know truth and live in truth and just be
founded in the truth. So I just ask you really bless Benji as
he as he brings words that you grant him clarity as to the
questions I've asked what the deep thing is that needs to be
dealt with not maybe not just the surface thing and I just I
just ask these things in the precious name of Jesus. Yeah.
Amen. Very very cool. Um Sweet. Good to see some of you guys
jumping in here and we were just saying thank you very much
for praying Jennifer. I was just saying that if you want to
and you're looking for the Zoom link it's posted here in the
group. So I'll just I'm just here we go. I'm just let's see
if I can edit this on the fly.
Oh yes I can. Okay cool cool. I'm just putting the Zoom link
for anyone if you are missing it. It's in your emails. It's
here in the post in the group and now it's also in the
description of this video. So there we go. We've got lots of
places now where the Zoom link is available. So there you go.
If you wanted to get on the Zoom link you shouldn't have a
problem now. It's everywhere. Um and it's good times. Okay so
well I see a couple of new questions. Corinna's working and
listening. Kerry's waiting for the link. So just so you know
Kerry there you go. Kerry's jumping in there right now.
She's found the link. Lisa's listening from the UK. Anna is
with us from the States. So we've got Australia. Um well we
got three from Oz. We got the States. We got the UK. We got
New Zealand. We got a good good representation on the team. So
cool cool. Well um Jennifer we should start with your question
but just before we start with that question let's just take a
couple of minutes now just to pray in the Holy Spirit. Pray
in the Holy Ghost for a little bit and let's just um lean into
that space as well where the Spirit of God is flowing
beautifully and sweetly. He's always flowing. Let's just uh
just pray in the Spirit for a little bit and open our hearts
up to everything that God wants to do in us.
No name higher than your name is Jesus. We lift you up.
We lift you up. We exalt you in our hearts and in our lives and
everywhere we go we lift up your name. You're sure Messiah. We
decree we declare that Jesus you are the king of kings and the
lord of lords. We decree and we declare that every knee will bow.
Every tongue will worship. Every knee will bow. Every tongue
confess that you alone are the king of kings and the lord of
lords and we give you
all the glory and all the honor. Yeshua Messiah, we say he lifted high in us like never before.
We thank you right now Holy Spirit for everyone in this journey in the Online School of Sancho.
We thank you for doing a work now on our minds Holy Spirit. We thank you for doing a work on
our hearts. We thank you for the softening right now by your Spirit, the softening of our hearts
and the softening of our minds that there would be a softening so that it's like rain on dry soil
so that the weeds can be pulled out effortlessly. Would you release rain on our minds? Would you
release the softening of our minds so that you can go deep into our subconscious, our unconscious,
deep deep deep into us and pull out those deep-seated lies and cheats and say,
whoa would you go deep in us Jesus? Well we submit a phrase to you, we submit to your word,
we submit to your name, we submit to your presence, we submit to your voice, we submit to your Spirit
and we welcome you to do a deep work in our hearts and in our minds like never before. Go deeper in us,
wrestle out the lies that that have made themselves comfortable in the core of our being.
We thank you for wrestling those out and establishing truth in us that positions us
for effortless oneness, effortless bliss, effortless union, whoa in you. Wow, amen, beautiful.
All right, hey Inna, good to hear from you. Oh look, there we go.
I've got some more love jumping in here. Okay, so Jennifer, this is beautiful. We
should start with your question. Good morning, evening, where are you coming from?
Alberta, Canada. Alberta, Canada. Right, well good evening. Hi Benji. Good to see you. Now
how do I say your name correctly? Heike. Heike, that's good. Yeah, it's German.
It's what, sorry? It's German. It's German, Heike. German, yeah. I was born there but
immigrated when I was six. Yes, well you sound like you immigrated a long, long time ago.
I did. Now let me test you on your German roots. If I said very, very quickly, if I said
what did I just say in German? Okay, say that one more time.
Yes, very good. You passed, right? Very good. That's all my German. I've just unleashed all my German on you.
Okay, so yeah, Jennifer, why don't you take it away with your question? This is a pretty good one.
Well, I didn't print it off, so I'll have to go from memory, but it was basically,
it seemed to me that there are places in the New Testament where Jesus was saying we were sinful,
and in Romans it talks about we've been rescued from our, you know, we've been freed from our
sinful nature, which sort of means we had one. We've been freed from the power of sin, so we're
under the power of sin. Yeah, so I can't quite see how that sort of works with being perfect,
or having always been perfect. And how could you possibly have always been perfect if there's
evidence of imperfection? Yeah, and if I look in my own life, there's still evidence of imperfection,
especially if you ask my children. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Don't ask your children.
So yeah, that is a brilliant question. First of all, let me ask you guys another question.
Do you want, what answer would you like to be true? I'm just teasing now, like what answer
would you like to be true? Would you like it if I prove to you from the Bible, if I got my Bible
out here, would you like it if I proved to you that you were rotten to the core?
Yeah, or would you like it if I proved to you that, I'm just asking you, like for you, what
would you actually, what would you like the answer to be? This is not theological, you know, this is
just like me just playing, teasing you, but you know, what would you like the answer to be? Would
you like the answer to be that actually you're perfect, and you're made in the image of God,
and you are?
righteousness of God in Christ Jesus or would you like the answer to be that you've got a sinful
nature and you corrupt to the core and you you're a reprobate you're depraved and there's something
you know intrinsically wrong with you? I'll take the first one. Okay you'd like you'd like it to
be true that you're made in the image of God you're the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and you're
perfect? Yes. Okay Kerry and you guys in the comments feel free to um chuck out your thoughts
to the Facebook world as well. Kerry and Jennifer what would you like to be true? I'd be happy to
believe I was perfect but yeah I don't know. Okay so you'd like to believe that but yeah like you'd
like to believe that but there's a few big buts there stopping you from accepting that as a viable
option. Yeah. Okay Kerry? I'd like to believe I'm perfect. And how do you sit with it at the moment?
Pretty well. I had a vision of sonship when I was in my early 20s and I that's how I thought
that we were perfect. Great and how about now?
Uh I get it's a bit confusing when you talk to people um because you've got to bring sin in
somewhere somehow with with some people. Do you or don't you? Oh well it's your story you're living it.
Okay I'm sorry. Hi Jackie. Pardon me? Oh I'm just saying hi Jackie. Jackie just jumped into the
group uh into the zoom as well but. Hi. Hi Kerry. Um I came into this knowledge of you know being
perfect probably about four or five years ago and it like literally changed a lot of things for me.
Um so that verse from Galatians 2 20 became my go-to verse like I've been crucified with Christ
it's no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me and the life that I live I live by the faith
of the one who loves me and died for me. And when I struggle with sin I would just quote that and it
would set my mind and my heart towards that truth. Okay Micah are you okay if we get some
like if we utilize your life as a bit of an example and go deep? Sure. And how comfortable
are you with vulnerable questions? Uh very vulnerable just come right out and ask. Okay
sweet. All right so when you're struggling with sin what what what are you struggling with? You
know what's what's the stuff that you personally struggle with? Your secret stuff? What is it
that's the junk that you've wrestled with? Well um about eight years ago my husband passed away
and um I would lay at night in bed longing for intimate touch and wanting um
yeah just to have someone and he wasn't there so I was very tempted to pleasure myself
to be totally blunt with you and I just I just struggled with that I didn't want to fall into
that so and that is when I got this knowledge about that I don't have to sin I don't have to
go down that road and I started quoting that verse and it just set me free like literally within
a minute or two the temptations would leave and I would just be able to go to sleep and be at peace.
Okay well good stuff well thank you very much appreciate that. Is I too deep and vulnerable?
Not at all not at all we can talk about masturbation another time anyway it can be
for another conversation whether or not that's an issue whether it's terrible or whether
does masturbation make you gay?
We uh
we'll leave that for now but I'm just saying no it's totally fine to be vulnerable it's
totally fine to be transparent um huge amount of what we wrestle with is sexual
just a big part of our identity and our journey so that's and also because that's also a big part of
um where most people's shame lies yeah so if we it's and i won't say you know it's just all i'd
say is it's a high percentage for people is that our shame is somehow fused with our sexuality
and it's no accident because that's always the path that Satan wants to go after that because
he understands that anything that's sexual carries a higher level of shame with it so for me my my
secret sin you know that i was uh you know when i was a little kid was just playing doctor nurses
you know with some of the other kids around but you know because there was nudity involved and
it felt like a you know it wasn't actually really anything sexual but we're running around naked as
kids and things like that that that dynamic of it uh put this insane level amount level of shame on
me you know i just i was i was my identity was fused with shame and so my yeah the conclusion
that i came to for myself even as like a little kid you know like six years old you don't have
to be very old to come to powerful conclusions about yourself and this is why Satan always attacks
people's sexuality you know sexual abuse is rampant you know in New Zealand sexual abuse is about you
know 25 percent of girls by the time they're 16 being sexually abused and about 20 percent of guys
so this is not like a small area and that's just by the time people are 16 you know never mind the
rest of your life and all the rest of your journey and um and whatever else is happening
and that's just people abusing you let alone the ideas that we come to and the conclusions we come
to about ourselves so the the core of our being and for me i even as you know a six-year-old i came to
this conclusion there's something intrinsically wrong with me right like i come to that conclusion
there's something intrinsically wrong with me and this is really really significant to the
conversation that we're having right now the questions that we're going to ask and answer
and wrestle with right now is the moment that we come to the conclusion that we're anything less
than perfect shame will come on us to to one degree or another okay so the moment that we
are convinced that we're less than perfect in any way then there's a vacuum right that fills that
gap so anywhere that anywhere in our mind that is less than fully persuaded that we are already
100 perfect and we're already 100 the righteousness of god and christ jesus
anywhere where that is not uh we're not fully persuaded of that inadequacy fills the vacuum
so we come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with us if you're not perfect
then you've automatically you automatically come to the conclusion that there's something wrong
with you right and the moment that you come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with you
you know two things happen a whole not just two things the moment that you are convinced that
you're anything less than perfect it starts off an entire chain reaction of orphan dysfunction
so the first thing that happens the first thing that happens is inadequacy you know that that
sense of okay there's i'm inadequate i'm not enough there's something wrong with me
something's dysfunctional something's broken about me all right and then when we conclude that
um once we come to that conclusion so this is deep psychology and it's really important to
understand that you know i've said this before i said this in the um in the open heaven intensive
is that our psychology is our spirituality and people haven't people christians haven't understood
this you know christians haven't understood that most of what jesus talked about in regards to
truth and repentance and faith is actually psychology so jesus is very very very interested
in our psychology because our psychology is our spirituality and our psychology is our theology
our psychology determines our identity our psychology determines our intimacy with the
trinity our psychology determines the divine doubts our psychology determines our state of being so
psychology is extremely important and jesus made psychology one of his big big topics so
anytime jesus mentioned the truth it was the topic was psychology anytime he mentioned the word
repent
the topic was psychology so um so the psychology of what happens to us the moment we believe that
we're anything less than perfect we come to the conclusion that we there is something wrong with
us okay that there's something something wrong with who we are then it brings shame on us okay
and shame is hey how you doing good to see you all the way from vietnam here i am in your town
good to see you too sorry it's so late um i i've been out um getting some necessities for
online schooling and got caught up at the gate because of my temperature read 37.5
oh so i had to cool down to let me in
very cool well good to see you good to see you too you're looking great by the way
oh thank you thank you very much i'm cooling down i'm sure it's the cooling yes
so here we are we're talking psychology um we're talking about what happens when we come to the
conclusion that we're anything less than perfect okay so inadequacy fills our heart shame fills
our heart and shame is another um shame and self-hatred are the same thing right we don't
necessarily realize it but shame and self-hatred are exactly the same thing and directly connected
with that is isolation okay and in the butte one of the one of the most classic places that we see
that is the garden of you know of eden when when the fall happens right so there's a psychological
process happen takes place at at the pool that results in isolation and dysfunction okay so
you're always gonna whenever there's whenever there's a inadequacy it will lead to isolation
whenever there's a conviction that you're not enough that will lead to isolation and god won't
be um it's really important to understand that god isn't initiating our disconnection god isn't
initiating our isolation that's something that we do all by ourselves and we do it subconsciously
and unconsciously it becomes our it's a it's a chain reaction it's a default becomes a default
setting anytime that you believe you're not you're less than perfect in any way you become the source
of your own separation and and that happens at a deep level so even if on a conscious level you're
like i want god i want god at a subconscious and an unconscious level you're running from him
you're not consciously aware of that you're doing that but that is always the uh that's
always the fruit of believing that you're not perfect is that it causes you to run from him so
for me as a little kid coming to the conclusion that i wasn't um i wasn't perfect that you know
because i've been playing doctors and nurses that have fused shame uh into the core of my
being i hated myself also produced a big trigger you know so satan just needed to press that button
and holy you know i would i would go into full-scale rage mode and not you know like this
was for years and years and years well over a decade before i got free of that well over a
decade um for some people it's you know like 50 years 60 years 70 years they just die with it you
know they never they never resolve those triggers they never resolve those conclusions that they
make about themselves in those moments who yet as a child came to the conclusion that you weren't
perfect that there was something wrong with you yeah what voices what voices
spoke into your life and and endorsed the idea that there was something wrong with you as a child
my parents yeah what did they do what did they say what happened well i remember one time i came home
uh with a test and i had had like 98 on it and my dad i wanted
encouragement i wanted praise and instead he said uh why didn't you get a hundred
yeah yeah totally and that can be a that can be a big blind side for a kid you know they can hit hard
Yep, someone else who, just tell me another reason, another something that convinced you
that you weren't perfect as a child.
I think it's a lot of my self thoughts Benji, and that I remember you know lashing out at
my brother or something like that because I was angry, and then thinking, that's not good, you know?
That's not good, that's not very negative stuff, look I'm sure you were more brutal than that.
Yeah, I don't know how to put it into words because it was kind of like, just a realisation that I, you know.
Yep, who, now I never went through any, you know, any abuse or anything like that, anyone here been through abuse as a child?
Yep, yep Kerry, is there anything that you would say was a particular lie, or was there something that you believed
through that process, something you believed about yourself through that experience?
For me? Yeah. I guess what, I guess, I guess that the projection that was projected onto me through the nuns and things like that
made me feel not good about myself. Yeah. And so, and in some ways the projection that they projected then
kind of backfires and you have a life like that, if you can understand. Hi Lottie, welcome.
So what you're saying is, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy? Yes.
Right, so what did they say about you? Basically that I was boy crazy, which probably I wasn't,
but just that projection, and I can remember as a, when I was about six or something,
a boy pushed me off this wall and I got gravel rash all up my leg, but then I saw him being
strung up from the rafters, and just the, just things like that, and I can remember I was looking
out a window, there was a funeral going on, and this nun, you know, I'm just daydreaming out there,
not thinking anything, and just those things that they thought then got projected back on you.
Yeah. Okay, so someone speaks alive, have you, hey Eli, good to have you with us buddy.
Hey, how's it going? Good, my man, good, good. It's been a while. Yeah, it's good to, good to see you, but
so they speak something over you, and you come into agreement, and then it ends up becoming a
self-fulfilling prophecy, and it bears fruit in your life. Yes. Yeah, it happens all the time,
it happens all the time, you know, there was a girl who lived not so far down the road from me,
I didn't really know her, but my dad was a pastor, and he was involved in things in the area, and
you know, her parents raised her calling her a pig, and they raised her outside, and you know what,
she thought she was a pig. She started, you know, acting like a pig, living like a pig,
why? Because everyone told her she was a pig, you know, all the people in their life told her she
was a pig, and treated her like a pig. What do you think? What do you think's going to happen?
It's going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and it's empowered, right, the power of it comes
from our agreement with them, and our agreements can happen, they don't, your agreements don't
necessarily happen, and actually, majority of the time, they don't happen at a conscious level.
You don't sit down to yourself, you know, with yourself and go, you know what, I mean, sometimes
you do, sometimes you make an inner vow, and you go, right, from this day forth, wow, or sometimes
it's not even an inner vow, sometimes you just make a vow, but the majority of the time, the
agreements that we come to, they're actually really deep, subconscious and unconscious
agreements, and this is why the renewing of the mind is so critical, and why it has to go real,
real, real deep, is because our agreements are so deep that you don't get to the place where you
uproot your agreements, you know, you don't get to that place of uprooting those agreements just
lightly, okay.
casually. You've got to think about it like really hard ground, in a sense. Now, hard
ground can get softened really quickly. Absolutely. That's what supernatural encounters are so
good at doing, because a supernatural encounter will take you from where you are to where
you never imagined to be in a split second. Who's experienced a supernatural encounter
with God, where maybe in some way, just in some way, the power of God made his love effective
and the power of God brought home to you a truth that you hadn't been in agreement with
before that moment. Yeah, for sure, right? The power of God, the love of God, supernatural
encounters have this phenomenal ability to go real deep, real fast and penetrate the subconscious
and unconscious mind. That's one of the beautiful things about praying in the spirit,
about fasting, about spiritual disciplines, about reading the word. It's like rain on the hard ground
of your subconscious and unconscious mind, and the rain just slowly softens it, softens it,
softens it, softens it, so that the deep, deep agreements and lies that are in the core of our being,
those agreements can actually just slowly start to be lifted out. So for me,
yeah, it wasn't until I was 18 that God started, you know, God dealt with me on my
agreements around my secrets, and actually it was longer that he dealt, you know, it actually
took a lot longer for me to deal with the agreements, because what's terrible for Christians,
right? What's terrible for Christians is we have these negative experiences, traumas, we don't need
anyone to help us with our conclusion that we're not good enough, right? You don't need anyone
to help you with that. You're going to come to that conclusion by yourself. If you don't
come to that conclusion by yourself, it's an absolute like one in a million miracle, if you
don't manage to come to the conclusion that you're not good enough all by yourself, right? The problem
is, as kids, especially Christian kids, we come to the conclusion that we're not good enough, and not
just Christian kids, everyone comes to that conclusion, but the problem with Christian kids
is they come to the conclusion that they're not good enough, and then they go to Sunday school,
and they hear that the word of God is that they're absolutely not good enough. You know, you
thought you weren't good enough, let me tell you how bad you really are, you know, like you've got a sinful
nature. What? What does that mean? Oh, you want to know what that means? It means you're corrupt to the very
core. What? Yeah, there's something intrinsically wrong with you, and that's what it means to be human.
Oh, gosh, right, wow, gosh, yes, well, I guess I did need a few more reasons to hate myself,
well, that's taken care of now. Great, see you next Sunday. So,
well, so we're wrestling with these two questions today, and we might just focus on the one,
the two are connected, but the two questions that we're wrestling with is, what in you, you know,
why do you believe? Is there anything in you that believes that you aren't perfect? And then,
is there anything in you that believes that you aren't seamlessly one with God all the time? Okay,
so those are the two questions we're wrestling with, and they go hand in hand, okay, because,
like I said before, is if you believe that there's something wrong with you, you become
the source of your own separation. So we'll focus in on that question for today, and we'll look at
seamless oneness, and we'll look at that question of separation next week, but
here's an interesting way to, did anyone see that post that I put up yesterday,
last night in the master class, how did you meet Jesus? You know, how old were you when you met
Jesus? And it's interesting how many people met Jesus without someone sharing the gospel with
them, and it's interesting how many people said, I just always knew God. I don't know how, but I
just always knew God, isn't it? I mean, there's been hundreds of people reply to that post,
hundreds, and crikey, it took me over an hour reading just some of them this morning. I was
like, holy moly, this is amazing. It's like reading a whole book. It's like reading the book of Acts.
Bible for this morning, just reading like all of these miracles and encounters.
And, you know, like some of them are almost similar to Paul,
because, you know, like Paul, you know, how Paul gave his life to Jesus
is Jesus just turned up and knocked him off his horse, didn't even say anything.
That's interesting, isn't it?
That's an interesting way of preaching the gospel.
Now, let me ask you, did it produce like did it actually get Paul free?
Did it get Paul free?
OK, it got Paul free, but nothing was really said.
Here's what we have to understand, what we have to really, really grapple with.
And this is something where religion is so confusing.
Christians are so confused with this.
And, you know, I'll say something like this and they'll think I'm a total heretic
because, you know, the cross, the cross in itself,
like just the cross, it doesn't set anyone free.
Jesus never said the cross would set people free, you know.
And let me let me contextualize that with this.
How many people in the world still aren't free?
Billions. Yeah, billions, right.
So billions of people, despite the cross, has happened.
Billions of people still aren't free. Yeah. Yeah.
This is something that I think that Christians do not do very well
with their theology or psychology is actually
try and actually test it in the real world.
They actually actually test it out and just see if it actually makes sense,
as opposed to this is what we got told in church.
Well, let's actually just look at that and see if it actually makes sense
and if it actually works in the real world.
And just see if your theology can handle the test of reality.
You know, whereas your theology just crumbles in the face of reality.
So Paul, for example, he's wandering along and and Jesus just turns up
and he gets knocked off his horse and all of a sudden starts experiencing radical freedom.
Was it? Did anyone get? Did he?
But nothing was said.
Except I am Jesus, the one who you're persecuting.
Right. Because what Paul needed is he needed truth to set him free.
That's what he needed. He needed truth to set him free.
And truth can come in lots of different ways.
Truth doesn't even need to be spoken.
Jesus is the truth.
Just his presence will start setting you free like you never imagined.
It can happen through osmosis as just, you know,
you're in the presence of God and by osmosis, you start receiving revelation.
And sometimes you don't even know why it happened
because you received it at a deep spirit level.
You actually can start working at a subconscious, unconscious level
and your conscious mind is not even aware of it.
And all of a sudden you started getting free.
What's happening? Jesus is working at it.
The spirit of God is working at a conscious and subconscious,
you know, unconscious and subconscious level,
actually bringing freedom into the core of your being.
And it's just bubbling up.
This freedom is just bubbling up.
So let me connect this with our question here about freedom.
About imperfection.
This whole journey is about truth.
It's about lies.
And the lies will always become self-fulfilling prophecies.
So who here believes that they're not 100% perfect?
Who here believes that they're not as perfect as God is?
So anyway, put your hands up if you believe you're not as perfect as God is.
Okay, Raelyn's straight into it.
No, she's like, absolutely don't believe that.
Okay, and here's one reason why you don't.
And I've tried to stress this, but it doesn't go in majority of the time.
I have to stress this over and over again
because if you don't get this one point here, you'll never get free.
You'll never be able to step into your identity
because you'll always define your own identity based on your experiences
rather than based on who God says you are.
And the problem is that at a very, very deep level,
we have fused the idea that our behavior in some way reflects our identity.
And there's lots of reasons why we would think that.
You know, we've been to church or we've hung out in our own mind,
which tells us that a lot over and over and over again.
We've hung out with other people who've told us that we're not enough,
who've endorsed the concept of our own inadequacy.
It's all these reasons and all these ideas that we get
that endorse the idea that we're not perfect, okay?
And because we have fused the concept that our performance, what other people say, our
life experience has some bearing on our identity, we come into agreement at a very, very deep
level in our own heart that we are not as perfect as God is.
But that is exactly what it means to be made in the image of God.
To be made in the image of God means He made you as perfect as He is.
To be the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus means that you are as perfect as He is.
But the lie that you have to break and the idea that you have to break is this fusion,
and it's a fusion that people have, but God doesn't have this problem.
That's why God's so happy to say, I made you in my image, and He never retracts that even
when we're in our darkness, right?
So even when you're, someone tell me something really sinful and wicked that they've done.
Come on, Lottie, I bet you've got something real naughty, something terrible that you've
done.
I dare you to go deep for us for a moment, otherwise I'm going to have to ask Jackie
because she's got tons, she's got a whole diary full of naughty things she's done.
Say Jackie, Lottie, go on, save her.
Can't think of anything bad you've ever done?
Not one thing?
Not that I want to share.
Not that you want to share, that's all right.
Jackie, can we come to you and see if you can tell us one thing, one wicked thing that
you've done?
Are you talking to me?
Definitely talking to you, Jackie.
Okay.
Waiting in a shop when I was a child in the country, living in the country, and nobody
would come to serve me, and there was some chewing gum in front of me, and I stole a
packet of Juicy Fruit chewing gum, which was one of those four-pallet packs, you wouldn't
know about it, Benji, you were too young.
And I kept that for three weeks before I snuck into the shop and returned it to the packet
because I was terrified somebody would have seen me.
That's about one worse thing I did.
Okay, well that's something terrible.
That's hilarious.
I can't believe it.
How did you get into this school?
Terrible.
No, nothing changes.
It's a long term.
So here's the thing, is that we somehow have used the idea, hey Andrew, good to see you,
hey Rhys, we've somehow used the idea that in our darkest moments, that those dark moments
somehow are a reflection of our identity, and for God that's never the case.
Right?
It's never, never, never the case.
So if we want to be able to break free from this, we have to break the weld with the idea
that our behavior, our performance, our life experience has anything to do with our identity
at all.
And you have to break the idea that your good behavior has something to do with your identity
as well.
Your good behavior is not a reflection of your identity.
Right?
And your bad behavior is not a reflection of your identity.
You couldn't change your identity if you tried.
You never had anything to do with your identity.
Right?
That was not something that you ever did.
That was sovereignly done by God before you were even born.
So this is what, you have to understand that your identity was set in stone before the
foundation of the world.
Two beautiful places to understand that is that Genesis 1.
Genesis 1 is a great place to start with this.
Just meeting a couple of people because there's some weird sound in the background.
We have to understand that right from the very beginning, God made humanity in his image
and that was never retracted.
Okay?
Most of the gospel is actually in Genesis.
Genesis 1 has actually got most of it.
I just see Raylan saying in the comments, she said, totally.
I am a good girl.
So if I'm not good, then I'm not perfect.
Know that he sees me as perfect, but I don't.
Yeah.
That's a real issue.
That's not going to...
David Riddell has a good quote.
He said, where will you go if your mind is not your friend?
When will you go if your mind is not your friend?
So Genesis 1 talks about our identity being set in place, you know, before we were born.
Who was born here before Genesis 1?
Anyone?
No, no one here was born before Genesis 1, but you were made in the image of God.
The next place that we see this, and I've said this over and over, in this verse here, John 17, verse 22 is probably the perfect verse for the question we're talking about, because Jesus has, in this verse, Jesus welds identity and intimacy together.
John 17, 22, he said, I have given them the same glory, and that word you can take to mean identity as well, it's the Greek word doxa, substance, worth, value, you could say identity, I've given them the same identity, the same glory, the same
doxa that the Father gave me.
The first thing he's doing is he's speaking in the past about your identity, and he did something beautiful here that made it impossible for religion to steal your identity by making it a past tense statement about a future people.
And he also made it very, very clear which glory he gave you, right?
So everything has a glory, or the Greek word is doxa, and everything has a doxa, the tree has the doxa of a tree, now a dog has the doxa of a dog, a chair has the doxa of a chair, but what doxa do you have, and when did you get it?
Jesus made it really clear that the doxa that you have is the same doxa that the Father gave him, the same identity that the Father gave Jesus, he has given to you, when? Before you were even born.
So let me ask you this, what did you have to do with it?
Nothing.
You never had anything to do with your identity, and you still don't, right?
You don't have anything to do with your identity.
It's by the grace of God that you are who you are, right?
You don't have anything to do with your oneness with God either.
In Corinthians 4, it's of God that we are in him.
It's not your work, it's not my work, and it's by grace so that we can't boast.
It's beautiful that it's by grace, because otherwise we would start turning it into performance, right?
And so the problem with performance is, if you're doing good, you're doing good, but if you're not doing good, oh man, it's a bad day.
It's a bad, bad day.
Religion has some dark, dark days to it.
I've had so many dark days because of religion, and even as a pastor, and even as a evangelist,
and even as someone leading a ministry training school.
I had so many dark days, dark religious days, until I understood how to break the fusion between identity and performance.
How to break the fusion between identity and what other people said about me.
How to break the fusion between identity and my life experiences.
And the key is understanding that you were made in the image of God before the foundation of the world.
Now, let's talk about some of the religious hooks, the things that break, like the things that endorse our inadequacy.
Because everyone's into the sinful nature, right?
If you've got up in church, it's like, oh, what about my sinful nature?
Yep, who thinks that that's a stumbling block right now?
Jennifer, I know that's one of your questions, right?
So, Romans 7 was one of your challenges, and people always get this going on with Romans 7, right?
So, Romans 7, first thing that we want to do in terms of contextualize this,
first thing that we want to do to contextualize this is, we want to ask ourselves a question here.
Who now thinks that Paul is trying to convince us that Jesus was lying?
Who would think that that was Paul's goal here?
To convince us that Jesus was lying about giving us our identity before we were born?
Probably not true, right?
Probably not what Paul's trying to do.
Who here thinks that Paul is now trying to convince us
that what God said in Genesis 1 was never true about us?
Probably not what he's trying to accomplish, right?
Now, so you have to realize, you know, if you've done the Open Heaven Intensive,
you'll realize that we've had centuries...
of really bad theology and some of the people who were some of the dodgiest
theologians were, guess what? The translators! And a lot of them were major
orphans. A lot of them had, they were corrupt people. A lot of them had
seriously, you wouldn't, they wouldn't be allowed to be a minister of church. Now,
no way! You'd be like, oh sorry bud, you're like, you don't even pass the police check.
So, that's the first thing, you know, like, it's good to read the Bible, but, you know, I
don't actually trust a Bible, you know, if I look at something, I'll read it, then I'll
probably read it in, like, 20 different translations.
20 translations, if we go real deep, we'll go, like, 30 different translations. And that's easy to do, it's not difficult, you just go into Bible Hub.
Just go to Bible Hub, put your verse in there, boom, 30 or more translations pop up and
you can just go, okay, right, let's read it in 30 different translations. And you know what?
Sometimes you read in 30 translations and you go, this, like, this still doesn't
even align with the gospel message, because some of this stuff is just
twisted. If you go real deep, sometimes you'll find that some of the things that
people are translating that don't sound right, it's because they're not in the
actual original text. And they were added in, you know, 500 years ago, just added in
because it made it, it actually endorsed their particular idea of Scripture. So,
Scripture is beautiful, but the translations that we have in our hands,
we have to dig real deep on them, okay? Especially if something seems to be
contradicting the truth that we already know. So, okay, right, let's go deep on it.
So, Romans 7, verse 7, what shall we say then? Is the law sinful?
Certainly not. Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin is, had it not been
for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was, if the law had
not said, you shall not covet. But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the
commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was
dead. Once I was alive, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang
to life, and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to
bring me life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by
the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So, then, the
law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good. Did that which is good
then become death to me? By no means. Nevertheless, in order that sin might be
recognized as sin, that you used what is good to bring about my death, so that
through the commandment, sin might become utterly sinful. So, we have to understand
as well what sin is, okay? So, I'm not saying that we can't sin, I'm just saying
that, and you talked about, you know, Jesus speaking to people as sinners, and
that's fine, right? When Jesus is going to speak to someone about sinners, what we
have to understand is that he's not making identity statements about
them, he's making behavioral statements about them, and there's nothing wrong with
admitting, oh my gosh, I've got some terrible sin happening in my life, okay?
I've got some really, you know, like, I've been doing some bad stuff. There's nothing
wrong with saying that, but there is a problem with taking your identity from
it, because what will happen if you take your identity from your failures and from your
negative behaviors and your negative emotions, if you take identity from that,
it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, just like if someone else comes and starts
calling you, like that little girl that was raised as a pig, she'll start
believing you, and you'll start having major psychological issues, in the sense
that, you know, if you believe that you're not perfect, you've got a major
psychological issue, and it's going to have major ramifications. So, the first thing we
want to do is identify what sin is, right? Sin is Romans 3.23, for all have sinned and
fallen short of the glory of God, with the Greek word there, like you've heard me
say before, mostly, is the Greek word there is the word doxa, okay? For all have
sinned and fallen short of the doxa, and sin is an archery term, first of all, okay?
So, when you're actually going around calling people sinners, you're actually
calling them, well, it's an archery term that means to miss the mark, okay? So, in each
language that you read, it means the same thing, it means to miss the mark, but you
can't, the thing is, you can't be lost if you didn't first belong, right? So, you
can't miss the mark, you can't live outside of your identity, if something, if
it isn't already your identity, okay? You can't miss the mark of living outside, so
what it means to sin, to miss the mark, first of all, glory, to all have sinned and
fallen short of the glory, the glory is what? What Jesus described already.
in John 17 22 Paul uses the exact same word that Jesus used to describe your identity and he said
this is who we are this is our identity when all have sinned and lived outside of their identity
so basically what sin is sin is any time you live outside of your own identity and what's
your identity the glory of God anytime you live outside of the glory of God that's sin all right
so there's a lot of missing the mark going on but the more you take your identity from the
times that you miss the mark the more that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and the more
you'll miss the mark so renewing your mind you actually have to like renew not just your
individual thoughts but you have to actually renew the whole mindset the whole psychological process
of how you process information right if you're in your darkest hour if you're you know like
Jackie's hideous terrible despicable act that she described us earlier which I can't even repeat
so much darkness you know if you were living in that level of depravity
the worst thing that you could do right is then take your identity from it
um someone brought up the concept of masturbation earlier right master and and always a good topic
to bring up with Christians um I've done lots and lots of uh revival schools and training schools
and things like that and there's always a good contingent of young people so we always have
sex talks in the schools so it's really funny because we always have a big Q&A comes it's
good good entertainment but they always bring up conversation and masturbation always comes up
nearly every training school I do so it's good entertainment but here's the thing is when you
know when young people are asking about that or anyone's asking about that I'm like well the worst
thing is actually not the act right it's if you take identity from it afterwards and and that and
you actually take identity from it so regardless of whatever your action is the action is one thing
but if the devil can get you to then take identity from your failure or from an act
then it's even worse right and um and I'm not I'm not making any judgment calls on whether
masturbation is good or bad anyway like I said earlier we can have that conversation another time
it'll be entertaining but um all I'm saying is anytime you feel like you've failed
anytime you feel like that it the worst thing you could possibly do is take your identity from it
then and take a sense of worth or value or determine you know like and analyze that and
go okay yeah this this means that I'm really not good enough this is evidence of my own
imperfection okay so let's keep reading um uh
uh
which but okay so we verse 14 we know that the law is spiritual but I am unspiritual sold as a
slave to sin I do not understand what I do for what I do for what I want to do I do not do but
what I hate I do there you go that's what we were talking about and if I do what I do not want to do
I agree that the law is good it's almost like reading a Dr. Seuss book um and it is as it is
it is no longer I myself who do it but it is sin living in me for I know that the good itself
does not dwell in me that is in my sinful nature
uh or my flesh um for I have the desire to do what is good but I cannot carry it out
for I do not do the good I want to do but the evil I do not want to do this I keep on doing
now if I do what I do not want to do it is no longer I who do it but it is sin living in me
that does it so I find this law at work although I want to do good evil is right there with me
for in my inner being I delight in God's law but I see another law at work in me waging war against
the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me what a oh what
a wretched man I am who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death thanks be to God
who delivers me through Christ Jesus our Lord so then I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law
but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin oh there you go well that's very interesting is it
so if you
If you want, and this is where most people have taken their perspective on the sinful nature,
that everyone's got a sinful nature, you were born with a sinful nature, this is who you are.
But then Romans 8, therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from
the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerful to do because it was weakened by the
flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering,
and so he condemned sin in the flesh in order that the righteous requirement of the law might
be fully met in us who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
So what you have to understand is all of what Romans 7 is talking about is what Paul's life
used to be like in his religious roller coaster, in his religious world of the hamster wheel of
performance, the hamster wheel of religion, and religion is a system rigged to fail.
Here's the problem with Christianity, right, is that Christianity
or religion, I would say Christianity because it's not true Christianity, I'll say religion,
here's what religion is, religion demands perfection but prophesies failure.
Wow, exciting, right? Religion demands perfection but prophesies failure. Who's going to enjoy that
world? Who wants to even live in that world? It's a system rigged for success, for failure,
it's a system rigged for failure. You cannot beat the system and that's what
Romans 7 was all about because that's all Paul knew beforehand is a system where it demanded
perfection but prophesied failure because it's like, oh no, you're a sinner. I was at a Christian
event and they were trying to, you know, it was actually a marriage retreat and they were talking
about stuff, they were talking about identity, right, and I was like identity is my thing and
so they're talking about identity so I'm relaxed and they're like, all right, so we're all sinners,
and making it, so there's one thing to say, you know, I sin as a behavioral statement,
there's another, it's a totally different thing to say as an identity statement. So never, ever,
ever agree with someone or come into agreement or make an identity statement about yourself that
anything less than the fullness of the perfection of God, right, because if you agree with it,
it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now even if you don't agree with it, it's going to take a
good chunk of time to break the deep agreements within yourself so they actually stop, you know,
stop the momentum of all those agreements of a lifetime of agreements. Does that make any sense?
But these people were like, so you're a sinner, right, and they specifically looked at me and
they're like, you're a sinner, right, and I was like, no, in front of everyone, they're like,
and I was like, no, you're not putting that on me at all, and I will, I'm very happy,
like, it doesn't matter what context, if someone tries to put a false identity on me,
I wore false identities for so long that I'm like, I'm not going to wear that to please anybody,
and the problem is that all the sinful nature is, is a false identity,
right, so what is the sinful nature? The sinful nature is believing you have a sinful nature.
The sinful nature is the lies about your identity that fill the void
in the absence of the conviction that you're already perfect.
So when we, when Paul talks about, you know, I put, I die daily, or we put to death the sinful
nature, we put, you know, we put the flesh to death, all he's talking about is, he's talking
about, okay, we put, every time there's a lie that comes up that speaks about our identity,
we put those lies to death by declaring the truth that we are the righteousness of God and
Christ Jesus. Do you think that Paul's making an identity statement about your identity when he
says, what a wretched man I am? Is he trying to make an identity statement right there?
Well, I'll tell you what, there's been countless preachers who've turned that into an identity
statement, and realistically he was talking about what life used to be like when he didn't understand
his identity, and the very next few verses talk about how now he's totally free from that world.
It's, it's about the past life he lived when he was bound by religion and lived in that nasty
world of religion where religion demands perfection and prophesized failure. What
terrible place that's going to be.
And if you look at the context as well, Romans 7 is sandwiched between Romans 6 and Romans 8.
Now Romans 8 is just so crazy glorious. Romans 8, you know, talks about the unveiling of the
sons of God, more than conquerors, we were pre-designed. This is so good. Romans 8 29,
for those God for you, he also pre-destined to be conformed to the image of his son.
What does the process of being conformed to the image of his son look like? The process of being
conformed to the image of his son is not like becoming someone you aren't, it's becoming who
you already are. This whole journey of repentance is the process of becoming who you already are.
It's about stripping away the lies that have veiled the truth about who you are. And if we
look at Romans 8 19, for the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be
revealed, the sons of God to be revealed. It doesn't say creation waits for the sons of God
to be created or to exist, right? So if something has to be revealed or uncovered,
it means that there's something over it. It doesn't mean that they're not there,
it just means there's something veiling it, there's something hiding it. So what is it that's
hiding the sons of God, that all creation is longing for the sons of God to be revealed?
What is it? It's just the lies that blind us to the present reality of who we already are.
That's what all creation is longing for, you to wake up to the present reality that you're
already as perfect as God is. Because what do you think is going to start happening in your life
when you start believing that? What do you think is going to start happening in your own life when
you start believing that you're exclusively defined by the trinity? When nothing, no experience you go
through, nothing that anyone says, nothing that you go through could ever show you that you're
fully persuaded that you're as perfect as God is. How do you think you're going to feel in your own
skin? Okay, so recess. So it's like our nature is simple, but at heart we are perfect. No,
our mind, that's a good question. So it's like our nature is simple,
but at heart we're perfect. No, let me say it another way. You're just perfect.
You're perfect, right? You're 100% perfect. The nature, the path that corrupts, right,
is in your mind. And it's only corrupt because it believes it's not perfect.
Does that make sense? It's only corrupt because it believes that you're not perfect.
That's where the corruption comes in. That's where the defiled mind comes in.
The defiled mind comes in believing that you're not perfect or that you're perfect because of
your own, like you did something, your own righteousness made you perfect.
Now, I'm not talking about self-righteousness, that you made yourself perfect. I'm not talking
about that at all. I'm talking about by the grace of God, what God has done and what God alone has
done can do is God made you in his image and you had nothing to do with that. It is entirely by
the grace of God that you are who you are. Sin is the fruit or the evidence that we don't believe
that we are who God says we are. Sin is the evidence that we aren't persuaded we are who God says we are.
So, Reese, so sin comes from our mind? Sin comes from lies, Reese. That's where sin comes from. Sin
comes from lies. If you're wondering where sin comes from, sin always comes from lies and better
lies and truth. Lies and truth live in our mind, but they don't come from our mind. Jesus is the
truth and John 8, Jesus says, you know, the truth will set you free. He also says that Satan is a liar and the father of lies.
So, sin is the result of believing a lie.
and freedom is the result of believing the truth. The divine life is the result of breathing, believing the truth.
I hope this is tracking for people. Let's look at Romans 6 again.
Before we do that, let me talk about something. This is another part of context that Christian theology neglects in a really, really bad way.
Most theology doesn't take the Old Testament into context.
They forget about the Old Testament, about how people could have freedom in the Old Testament.
Does anyone believe that there were wicked people in the Old Testament? There were some really bad people.
Put your hand up if you agree there were some really bad people in the Old Testament.
Yeah, okay, there were some really bad people in the Old Testament. We know that.
Goliath, what a bad guy. What a bad guy.
Do the uncircumcised Philistine.
But does anyone understand that there were some people who walked in righteousness in the Old Testament?
Does anyone understand that in the Old Testament, they were also promised salvation an untold number of times?
God promised to save them in the Old Testament and just countless times God promised to save the people in the Old Testament.
And he promised them something in the Old Testament. He promised them salvation in the Old Testament as well.
So this is a really big deal because people talk like until Jesus came, that it wasn't until Jesus came that reality didn't apply until Jesus came.
People talk like you couldn't have intimacy with God before Jesus came.
Or people talk like there weren't righteous people and wicked people before Jesus came.
But that's not the truth. In the Old Testament, God constantly promised them shalom.
Shalom, which is the Hebrew word, doesn't just mean peace. It means everything functioning according to divine design.
It's the same promise as what Jesus promised in the New Testament when he promised them the divine life.
That's what sozo is, the divine life. Or shalom is the divine life.
So the divine life was a huge theme in the Old Testament, promised and prophesied over and over and over and over again.
And many people walked righteous lives and many people walked in shalom and many people walked in extreme intimacy with God in the Old Testament.
But it seems like New Testament theology just comes waltzing along when Jesus turns up and it's only at the cross that all of a sudden people can get free or people can get forgiven.
It's actually not the case. God forgave people in the Old Testament all the time.
The whole Old Testament is just full of God forgiving people. It's full of people walking in righteousness.
It's full of people walking in shalom. It's full of people walking in amazing, amazing intimacy with God.
And the point always is, do you believe the truth that you were made in the image of God or do you believe a lie about your identity?
These are the things that have been the things forever, not just after the cross.
These were always the things for humanity that we walked in.
So it might sound revolutionary to you, but it wouldn't sound revolutionary to anyone in Israel.
But people could get free before the cross. People could walk in righteousness before the cross.
God could forgive effortlessly and freely before the cross.
Even Jesus is saying to people all the way before the cross is like, your sins are forgiven.
Your sins are forgiven. They didn't have a problem.
The Pharisees didn't have a problem with the concept of the sins being forgiven.
They just had a problem with this 33-year-old punk builder walking around telling everyone their sins are forgiven.
He's like, who the heck are you? You can't go around. What is this guy doing? Who do you think you are?
So they had a problem with Jesus, not with the concept that sins could be forgiven, because sins were forgiven all the time.
So what I'm trying to say is...
bring up is this concept of the sinful nature that you've always had a simple nature and it was only
at the cross that the simple nature could be dealt with okay not so all right not so
not so not so not so but we have to understand about the cross is that the cross
the cross is a medium to communicate something more powerful than the cross
there is something more powerful than the cross that the cross is trying to communicate
there is something more powerful than the blood that the blood is trying to communicate
and we go to john 8 32 to understand this and jesus never said that the blood would set you
free jesus never said that the cross would set you free and this is where we have to be really
careful with our theology is because people go oh yeah um you know it's the blood the blood that
will set you free it's the cross that will set you free how many people do you know and this
post that i put out last night which has had hundreds and hundreds of people sharing their
testimony of how they meet god how they meet jesus um there's just one one small layer of
evidence to the fact that people can meet jesus without knowing anything about the cross right
jesus just turns up in people's rooms all the time 50 of the muslims getting saved right now
there's a radical outpouring of muslims getting saved and 50 of them that are getting saved get
saved either because jesus physically turned up in their room in a country where it's illegal to
be a christian or he turned up to them in a dream or in a vision and it's not he doesn't have to
preach the gospel to them right he doesn't have to he doesn't have to tell them anything about
the cross he doesn't have to tell them he can if he wants to but he doesn't have to because there's
something more powerful than the cross that the cross is trying to communicate there's something
more powerful than the blood that the blood is trying to communicate and that is jesus
and jesus said in john 8 32 you will know the truth and the truth will set you free
and this truth has been powerful for all time and will be powerful for all time and
and so jesus said in john 14 6 i am the way the truth and the life so what you need to get free
is the truth and you don't need to know about the cross to get free you don't need to know about the
blood to get free i can sit down with someone and you know if they're bound up we can have a
conversation i can walk them into freedom without ever mentioning the cross or ever mentioning the
blood i can just talk to them about jesus why because the truth will set people free i'm not
trying to diminish the cross i'm not trying to diminish the blood at all i'm just trying to put
it in context of history and in context of of jesus himself jesus is the one that sets us free
truth is the thing that sets us free truth isn't just a doctrine truth is a person
truth is a person in him his presence he will be he's the one that will set us free um so
uh so when we look when we look at the
when we look at the cross okay because everyone seems to think this is this is why i was creating
some context around this because everyone seems to think like it's only at the cross that people
could escape the sinful nature but if you think like that you're forgetting
4 000 years of history that's just unfolded where people could walk righteously with god
here's here's what gets outrageously different at the cross okay in the old testament you had
some people that walked righteously but not that many okay so
there was the truth could set people free in the old testament just not that many people
had access to the truth okay this is a real big deal lots of people walked in extreme intimacy
with god in the old testament with more intimacy than most new testament believers have ever
imagined possible now who can imagine you know that this moment that happened with uh
moses nadab and abihu and aaron and 70 elders of israel in exodus it says that they were sucked up
into heaven and they ate a covenant meal with god on the sea of glass before the throne of god
you know over 70 people all got taken to heaven corporately together to have a covenant meal with
god in heaven that's a big deal okay so that so we had lots of people in the old testament
having those experiences but as a percentage of humanity as a percentage of the people in the
planet it wasn't that many so
Yes, over the context of 4,000 years of history,
lots of people had that experience,
but was it accessible to the average person?
Was it common knowledge?
No, it wasn't.
So what happens at the cross
is the most dramatic explosion of revelation
that the world had ever seen,
that the world will ever see.
And what happened at the cross
was deeper levels of revelation
than humanity had ever seen put on display before.
There's deeper levels of revelation
that you're like,
this is the single greatest revelation of the Father
and the revelation of identity
that humanity has ever seen unfolding on the cross.
And it blows it open in a spiritual round
and it breaks open the heavens.
And after the cross,
history changes forever after the cross
because all of a sudden this revelation that was hidden
is now put on display for the whole world.
It breaks it open and you just start seeing
like an open heaven break out into the world
and just revelation,
just freedom, it starts exploding.
Where in the Old Testament, it's a handful of people.
Now it's hundreds of millions, billions of people
who've had access to this revelation
because Jesus at the cross blew it open like crazy.
But what is, you know, it wasn't that,
what the cross communicated was true before the cross.
It was true before the foundation of the world.
That's why revelation says the land was slain
before the foundation of the world.
The truth didn't all of a sudden become true at the cross.
The truth was always the truth
because the truth is a person, not a doctrine.
All right, and you didn't need,
and even in the Old Testament and the New Testament,
whenever, you didn't necessarily need the cross.
What you needed was Jesus.
So the point that I'm getting at,
the point that I'm getting at is that people think
that you actually have a sinful nature
that the cross has to deal with.
You don't have a sinful nature
that the cross had to deal with.
You believed lies that the cross had to deal with
by communicating a truth that's greater than the cross,
which is Jesus.
Hope this is making sense.
Benji, can I ask a question?
Can I ask a question?
I'm just thinking back to the Old Testament
where God required the sacrifice
of a shed blood, like of an animal,
for the forgiveness of the Israelites.
Not true.
Okay, then explain to me, okay.
Not true.
Actually, if you look at all those sacrifices
and if you look at Hebrews,
Hebrews says that the blood of bulls and goats
was useless.
It didn't achieve anything.
It didn't achieve any forgiveness.
So it specifically says in Hebrews,
when they're writing about sacrifices,
the blood of bulls and goats didn't achieve any forgiveness.
And when it came to forgiveness,
if you look at the sacrifices,
you could have a grain offering.
If you couldn't afford something like that,
you could just throw some grain, right?
So blood wasn't the issue.
You could be forgiven.
So if you actually want to look at it in the Old Testament,
could you be forgiven,
just forgiven in the Old Testament without blood?
Yes.
Why do we get hung up on the concept
without the shedding of blood,
there is no forgiveness from sin.
Okay, people get caught up on that all the time.
It's because the Greek word for forgiveness there
is the word a thesis,
which doesn't mean forgiveness, right?
Forgiveness is just a small part of it.
It means freedom.
And it doesn't just mean a little bit of freedom.
It means freedom to fully participate
in the fullness of the divine life.
And so why is it that there'll be no freedom
to fully participate in the divine life?
It's because when the cross,
at the cross, what happened
is there's a massive outpouring of revelation, okay?
So without the shedding of blood,
there is no forgiveness of sins.
You're gonna have to put it,
you actually have to do some math on it though, okay?
Because what you're trying to say
and what Christian's trying to say is,
without the shedding of blood,
there is no forgiveness of sins.
And then they go right in the Old Testament,
God couldn't just forgive, rubbish, rubbish.
Who sacrificed, you know,
like who sacrificed on behalf of Noah?
There was no sacrifice in Noah.
God was like, okay, right, no, I'm done with that.
We're moving on.
There was no sacrifice.
There's lots of times in the Old Testament
where God just forgave people.
There's lots of times where Jesus
before the cross just forgave people.
So we have to put it,
and like, if we're gonna go, okay, right,
without the shedding of innocent blood,
there's no forgiveness of sins.
Maybe actually you can just like pause a moment
and put that in context and go,
is that what it really means?
Does it actually mean that God couldn't forgive?
No.
Because if you look at the sacrifices,
if they couldn't afford to go out and kill a cow,
they could just chuck some grain
and then count it as their sacrifice.
But then if you look at it in Hebrews,
Hebrews says, oh yeah, and even if they did sacrifice
a bull or a goat, yeah, even those didn't take away sin.
So I hear what you're saying,
but it is a little bit messy.
It takes longer, it takes more time than we have to,
takes more time than we have to just go through
and hit all those points for you.
But every great question has a great answer.
I will say again, though, that it's not about,
it wasn't about forgiveness for Jesus, right?
Jesus didn't come so that you could be forgiven.
And if you haven't seen it yet,
you wanna watch, because I did a whole session on this
at the end of the Open Heaven intensive,
and you really wanna watch it on the difference
between the Old Testament sacrifice
and the New Testament sacrifice.
There's a whole session on it.
So if you haven't seen it,
you really wanna go back and see that session.
Actually, it was the last session,
I think I did a bonus session
to help clear this up for people.
And it's a session that you probably won't hear
anyone else, I've never heard anyone else ever speak on it.
And it's the whole book of Hebrews
is trying to communicate the difference
between an Old Testament sacrifice
and a New Testament sacrifice.
So I'll just say, if you haven't heard that one,
go back and hear it,
because it's really, really critical to,
if you're wondering about sacrifices, go back,
I just did a whole message on sacrifices
and what's the difference between Jesus' sacrifice
and the Old Testament sacrifice.
And that will be really crazy helpful for you.
It's a message that really, really, really,
really needs to get out to the planet
and no one's talking about it,
but it brings so much freedom when you get it.
But it's really important.
It's really important to understand that Jesus didn't come
so that you could be forgiven.
People, and this is what that message will clear up for you,
is people always think that Jesus came
so you could be forgiven.
And that's not the case.
People always talk about the cross
as though the cross had to change.
And like you might've seen,
did you guys see some of those posts I put up
as did Jesus come to reveal the father
or change the father?
And people say both.
If you think the answer is both,
you're spiritually schizophrenic in a kind way.
And just like I was for many years,
it's spiritual schizophrenia that leads you to say both.
Jesus was both revealing God
and changing God at the same time.
But, and then because I say,
did Jesus come to reveal the father?
You know, or change the father.
Everyone says, oh, reveal, but maybe both, both.
I think both.
So Jesus didn't come so that you could be forgiven, right?
God was able to effortlessly forgive people
in the Old Testament, and he did many times over.
And Jesus demonstrates that in the New Testament
before the cross, he just goes around forgiving people, right?
The woman caught in adultery.
The woman caught in adultery,
that's a beautiful picture for right now
where all the people who think that Jesus came
to change God or satisfy the wrath of God,
just go to the beginning of John 8,
the woman caught in adultery.
Just read John 8.
It's the most powerful chapter on freedom
in the whole Bible.
John 8 is the most powerful chapter on freedom
in the whole Bible.
John 8 starts with the woman caught in adultery.
You know, it's all about condemnation.
And they think, right?
They think that God demands justice
and his wrath needs to be satisfied.
And Jesus is like, oh no, I can actually just forgive.
How about this statement?
There is no condemnation.
Didn't she need to be, she should,
surely she should, isn't that worse
than stealing some gum?
You know, she was caught in the act of adultery.
That's not very nice.
That's not very nice at all.
Bit of a home wrecker, bit of a home wrecker, eh?
She's not like, she's not a saint.
She's just been out there having an affair with someone,
wrecking someone's marriage.
She's not a saint.
It was a bit naughty, what she was doing.
She was a little bit naughty.
They picked a juicy, ripe sinner, you know,
and brought her to Jesus,
because they're like, there's no way,
there's no way that this person doesn't,
according to the law, deserve death.
And so they bring someone who's totally guilty,
caught red-handed, and first of all,
you kind of wonder, hey, like,
what were those guys doing?
Like, what are they up to that they're like,
okay, she's in the now, okay.
A bit sneaky, like P.D. Tom, kind of, you know,
a bit rude.
Anyway, interesting story.
So there they are, like,
yeah, can you imagine being that guy?
They're like, you run in while two people are having sex
and you just grab the naked body.
They grab this naked chick and just go,
ha, gotcha!
Right, let's go, boys!
And not just one or two,
like a whole group of you run in while they're having sex
and just grab your naked body and go,
ha ha, gotcha!
Right, you're coming with us!
Like, oh!
Anyway, that's what happened.
So a bit of an interesting story there.
And then they drag her downtown,
just drag her through the streets.
Where's Jesus?
We've got a naked person we want to introduce him to.
And here's a beautiful story for all the people
who think that Jesus came to satisfy the wrath of God
and that, you know, oh, what does Jesus do?
Oh, just effortlessly forgives her
as the exact representation,
as the exact revelation of God,
as the exact revelation of the nature of the Father,
effortlessly forgives before the cross.
And one thing we can learn from that
is that Jesus didn't come so that we could be forgiven.
Okay, forgiveness is always given.
It's just, it's there.
It's yours.
All you have to do is receive it.
Old Testament, New Testament, freedom.
Sorry, forgiveness is right there.
What we didn't have is we didn't have freedom.
Okay, that's the thing that Jesus really came
to get for us, is freedom.
Freedom, freedom, freedom.
And they had some freedom,
but they didn't have as much freedom as they could have.
Like I said, a handful of people
in the Old Testament walk in freedom,
but not as many as could have.
Jesus came that we could have freedom.
That's why without the shedding of innocent blood,
there's no freedom.
Sorry, without the shedding of blood,
not the shedding of innocent blood.
That's the wrong thing to say by a long way.
So, that's a good chunk for today.
It's a good chunk.
Let me try and sum up, wrap up.
Who believes that the truth is true before you believe it?
Does anyone out there believe that the truth
is the truth before you believe it?
Yeah?
Okay.
That's really important.
So, if the truth is the truth before you believe it,
and if the truth is that you're made in the image of God,
pause there.
If you're the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus,
how much sinful nature is in God?
None.
None?
Are you sure about that?
Are you sure that there's no sinful nature in God?
I'll tell you what you can have.
You can have as much sinful nature as you want.
You can have as much sinful nature as you want,
and it will always be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You know, the people who were the biggest
and harshest and most wrath-filled people
about the sinful nature,
you know,
they're not free from sin.
You know, John Calvin, despite all his wrath and rules
and things like that,
his own kids were breaking the laws on adultery.
You know, the mess was in his own family.
So,
are you trying to tell me that there's no,
God has no sinful nature?
Is that what you guys are trying to tell me?
Yes.
You're trying to tell me God has no sinful nature?
Yeah.
And you were made in his,
and are you also trying to tell me at the same time
that you were made in his image?
Yep.
But did God used to have a sinful nature?
No.
He didn't used to have a sinful nature.
Is he going to have a sinful nature?
Has he got a bad day coming up?
What's he like on the weekend?
So he's not going to have a bad day where he all of a sudden has a sinful nature.
And he never had a bad day where he was going to have a sinful nature.
Hmm.
Okay, so he never had a bad day where he had a sinful nature.
He's not going to have one, and you're made in his image.
And the truth.
Are you trying to tell me that the truth is the truth before we believe it?
Or is it more?
Do we make the truth true by believing it?
No? The truth is just true?
Okay, listen, the truth.
Huh?
For us, we make the truth the truth.
Yeah, you can change your mind about what you think is true.
Yeah, for sure.
So if that's the case.
Is it true that you were made in the image of God before you believe it?
Yeah.
So it's true that you were made in the image of God before you believe that.
But before you believe that, what did you believe about yourself?
What did you believe about yourself?
About your identity.
That I was a sinner.
Before.
I knew the truth.
When were you a sinner?
Pardon me?
So if you ask me, am I a sinner?
Is there sin in my behavior?
I'll happily say yes.
If you ask me that as an identity statement, are you sinful as an identity?
I'd be like, no.
And you know what? When I started to believe that I was perfect,
guess how quickly my life started changing.
So fast.
Guess how easy it started to become to enjoy the bliss of the divine life.
So easy.
Guess how easy it started to become to experience effortless union with God
and seamless union with the Trinity.
Guess how easy it started to become to experience the divine dance.
On a moment by moment basis.
Way too easy.
Way, way, way too easy.
So.
All the sinful nature is, is every lie that you believe about yourself.
The power that the sinful nature has is in your agreement that you have one.
So never let anyone tell you you've got a sinful nature.
And if there's a church that preaches simple nature from the pulpit.
Holy moly.
Be very, very careful about the toxic religion that you're missing with.
To be honest, it's going to be very hard to find a church that doesn't.
I would say 90.
Nine.
98%. Even of the churches that talk.
Still preach simple nature.
Even if they, even if they say they don't.
When you start scratching their theology,
they still don't believe that you got rid of the simple nature until you,
until the cross.
As opposed to you were just made in the image of God.
This is a real big deal.
Because it takes you up for a life of performance.
That's rigged to fail.
Right. When people get, when people say.
When people say.
The cross dictated your identity rather than Genesis one,
The cross doesn't dictate your identity before the cross.
The cross doesn't dictate your identity. Okay.
The cross releases a revelation.
That destroys the lies that you believe about your identity.
The cross doesn't see your identity.
Identity was sick.
And Genesis.
One.
The cross is about helping you remove all the lies that you believe
about your identity.
The cross is about helping you.
In a ridiculously insanely powerful way.
And the way that a handful of people in the old Testament captured it,
but Jesus broke up in a crazy whole new way for people.
Going forward.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
Get it in there.
In my challenge.
with it is that I guess I want to go all the way, I want to get you halfway there, okay?
I want to get you halfway there and set you up for a life of performance-based freedom,
because it's not actually freedom. And the only way that you're going to get there is if you
become fully persuaded, you become fully persuaded that you've always been perfect,
and it had nothing to do with you, it's just the truth that you were made in the image of God,
and that's what made you perfect. Now the cross is going to bring a powerful revelation into your
life that's going to help destroy all the lies that have tried to clamber over and smother your
perfection. Should we wrap it up there? Yeah, good. Righto, thanks everyone for a good chat.
We're going to do another Q&A Friday next week, but
yeah, so we're going to do another Q&A Friday next week. I want to encourage you guys to
wrestle with this, we're going to probably, you know, we've got 12 weeks on this
masterclass, and we want to, if you can remember the three things that we really need is
really good foundations, then we need the renewed mind, you know, and we need great work ethic,
you know, or diligence in that area. So we're going to do a little bit of work
on that. So Reese is just saying, what was the cross for? I really want to recommend you guys,
if you haven't, you should totally finish off the Open Heaven Intensive to help you out with this,
especially the whole thing about the cross and the whole, yeah, the Open Heaven Intensive is
going to really help you out with this, because we just, we did so much about the cross in there
and about sacrifice, so that's going to be really cool. Yeah, I just see Reese, even this,
your question here, I might do things that are wrong, but I am perfect, even the first part of
this message that you weren't here for is what we just, we just spent all that time chatting that
through. All right, I'm just checking some of the comments, I'm going to catch up with everyone,
and then next, it's Monday, we've got our next session, so Monday we're going to be doing,
we're going to be talking more around our activation. Monday, bring some coloring
pencils or something, we're going to do an activation, okay, so Monday, it's Monday 10am,
we'll go with, so Monday 10am, bring some coloring pencils and we're going to go with an activation
to really go deep in intimacy. Sound good? Okay, yeah, lots of journey on, lots of time to process,
enjoy and bless you, and we'll catch you soon. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye, see you.